The claim
“It’s important to note that black men commit nearly half of all murders in this country, which is astounding when you take into consideration the fact that they only make up 12-13 per cent of the population.”
“James”, 26 November 2014
There were angry protests across America this week after a grand jury decided a white police officer should not stand trial for the killing of black teenager Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri.
FactCheck has already looked at the statistics on killings by law enforcement officials. Though imperfect, the official figures suggest blacks are disproportionately likely to die at the hands of police.
Several people have left comments pointing out that this is not necessarily surprising or unfair, since blacks are also disproportionately likely to be involved in violent crime in the US, thereby putting themselves in the firing line.
One reader, “James”, wrote: “It’s important to note that black men commit nearly half of all murders in this country, which is astounding when you take into consideration the fact that they only make up 12-13 per cent of the population.
“So, given this fact, does it make sense that black men are disproportionately involved in shootings with the police? Your graph is appropriately proportionate, when you take into consideration the role that the black population plays in, not just murder, but crime in general.”
“Sean” said: “If one group is more likely to be involved in that then they are more likely to be killed by the police – so they have nothing to complain about if that is the case.”
We thought we’d check these claims out.
The analysis
It’s true that around 13 per cent of Americans are black, according to the latest estimates from the US Census Bureau.
And yes, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, black offenders committed 52 per cent of homicides recorded in the data between 1980 and 2008. Only 45 per cent of the offenders were white. Homicide is a broader category than “murder” but let’s not split hairs.
Blacks were disproportionately likely to commit homicide and to be the victims. In 2008 the offending rate for blacks was seven times higher than for whites and the victimisation rate was six times higher.
As we found yesterday, 93 per cent of black victims were killed by blacks and 84 per cent of white victims were killed by whites.
Alternative statistics from the FBI are more up to date but include many crimes where the killer’s race is not recorded. These numbers tell a similar story.
In 2013, the FBI has black criminals carrying out 38 per cent of murders, compared to 31.1 per cent for whites. The offender’s race was “unknown” in 29.1 per cent of cases.
What about violent crime more generally? FBI arrest rates are one way into this. Over the last three years of data – 2011 to 2013 – 38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black.
Clearly, these figures are problematic. We’re talking about arrests not convictions, and high black arrest rates could be taken as evidence that the police are racist.
But academics have noted that the proportion of black suspects arrested by the police tends to match closely the proportion of offenders identified as black by victims in the National Crime Victimization Survey.
This doesn’t support the idea that the police are unfairly discriminating against the black population when they make arrests.
So why are black offenders – and young black men in particular – over-represented in America’s crime statistics?
Judging from online comments, there is a wide spectrum of views on this, from unapologetic racism to militant refusal to blame the problem on anything but historic white racism.
Some criminologists think we could be simply confusing race for poverty or inequality: black people tend to offend more because they tend to be more disadvantaged, living in poorer urban areas with less access to public services, and so on.
If you control for deprivation, people of different races ought to be similarly predisposed to commit crime. Or that’s the theory, at least.
There is a lot of research in this area, but a lot of it is contradictory.
This study of violent crime in deprived neighbourhoods in Cleveland, Ohio, found that reductions in poverty led to reductions in the crime rate in exactly the same way in predominantly black and white areas, suggesting poverty, not race, is the biggest factor.
Other studies get different results.
All sociologists have suffered from the same basic problem: finding urban white communities that are as disadvantaged as the poorest black neighbourhoods, so that you can get a fair comparison.
Some thinkers play down the importance of poverty in favour of the “violent subculture theory”.
This is the idea that some black communities, for some reason, have developed cultural values that are more tolerant of crime and violence.
Some commentators on the unrest in Ferguson – mostly right-wing, though not all white – seem to favour this idea, but naturally it remains highly controversial.
The verdict
There is evidence in the official police-recorded figures that black Americans are more likely to commit certain types of crime than people of other races.
While it would be naïve to suggest that there is no racism in the US criminal justice system, victim reports don’t support the idea that this is because of mass discrimination.
Higher poverty rates among various urban black communities might explain the difference in crime rates, although the evidence is mixed.
There are few simple answers and links between crime and race are likely to remain the subject of bitter argument.
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for more news that challenges expectations – with stories that reveal and inspire, innovatively produced – with just a touch of mischief.
Patrick,
Undoing this “problem” of analysis is like dealing with the trembler switch on a planted bomb. Your analysis shows that much better than most.
I am willing to bet that an analysis of crime based only on poverty levels would show most offenders are from a poor or deprived background. But of course that will be avoided like the plague.
However, the implication that somebody commits murder JUST BECAUSE of the colour of his/her skin is both deeply offensive and stupid given the (white) West’s recorded history of war, colonialism and genocide. That too is avoided like the cultural plague it is.
When presented with facts that make you mad. Bring up the past which has nothing to do with the problem today and call everyone racist. I don’t like you telling the truth how offensive. White people used to be so bad a really long time ago how dare they tell the truth now. If i do this and call everyone racist. I will divert everyones attention from the truth.
Hah! SURELY you Jest! No matter how you frame it…. that was then, THIS IS NOW!
In other words, you’re saying the past doesn’t ever affect the present?
Look at Germany today and look at Germany in 1944. Big difference.
You dont forget the past, but if you live in the past there is a big problem. Times change.
We have to move beyond the politics of racebaiting. Instead of solving the problem we burn down cities because a gangbanger attacks a police officer and gets shot for it. Do we really need to teach our youth that you are entitled to commit crimes because of your race?
I have some good advice for everyone. If a police officer “rudely” tells you to get out of the street dont reach inside the cop’s car while punching him and trying to take his gun. That is the craziest thing in the world to do. Its basically suicide by cop…
Before there was even a black citizen… An i mean able to even own his name and be recognized in this country. There where white people killing whites and everyone else. Have you all forgot about the wild west ( white on white ) The indian wars ( white on native americans ) who may i add was slaughtered. Oh lets not forget Gangs of new york. ( white on white) I’m not a racist. Humans are violent as a species. But if ur going to point out statistics or ur version of facts. Then lets tell the whole story. Yes other imagrants come to this country and they do well. But lets get one fact straight. Black americans arnt immigrants. We were forced here. No choice at all. An the same system that was built then still stands now. To be exact any place that whites are the dominate power the other race is set for failure. Lets name a few. All of africa…India…. Alaska… Of my favorite. The United States of America. Australia… The west Indies.. An so on. Everything you people have touched has beethemploited and turned to shit. Culture far older then any of us can imagine whipped out. So if ur statistics makes ur life easier than please enjoy them now . retribution will be delt during judgement day.
You idiots really need to stop bringing up white on white crime in response to us Bringing up black on black. We aren’t the ones saying our lives matter when less than 1/2 of 1% of our race is murdered by another race. Marching, burning, looting, hash tagging, etc. all the while 98% of our race is murdered by our own. Blacks are 17% of America. Whites are 71%. Yet those 17 commit as many murders as the 71. What part of that doesn’t sink in? And if you broke it down to black males it’s 8%, black males 17-30 it’s 4-5%. So 4-5% commit as many murders as 71% of the countries population. Not fair. Then break whites down the same way and its 5%vs16%. So they commit 300% more murders per capita. And the whites include Hispanics in that scenario. The new doj report does not so whites drop down far on the crime lists.
I couldn’t agree more. Death by cop, seems to be the norm these days. Makes me think that there are those that do this purposefully, in order to be a kind of martyr to their people. As though a roadside cross and a bunch of stuffed toys is gift enough for donating your life “For the cause.” The black lives matter people, they call all blacks that agree with whites or that are Conservatives or that are even just Republicans…. “Uncle Toms.” This simply is NOT the case when they speak the truth about what the problem really is.
I read online that Germany no longer waves the Nazi flag because they are ashamed of that part of their history. In America, the Confederate flag is freely displayed in front of homes, on cars, in front of government buildings etc. People use ideas other than slavery (states’ rights, etc) as excuses to wave a flag in the very nation where it was defeated. It’s so hypocritical, it’s insane. White America needs to hold a conference and tell ITSELF that the past is over. Until then, we don’t believe you.
Stephanie Germany no longer flies the Nazi flag because they are not a nazi party. It’s that simple. Just because over time people have associated the Confederate Flag with slavery doesn’t mean that’s what it stood for. Either way it’s a moot point since its been removed from all state houses and govt buildings. Hell, even the Dukes of Hazard have been taken off the air, and all their merchandise from stores. And they surely didn’t stand for any racist beliefs.
“Bring up the past which has nothing to do with the problem today and call everyone racist.”
I fail to understand this common sentiment. Because of their visual identity, people, for many generations, were unable to own property, a primary form of investment in the US. They were denied jobs they were capable of doing, besides being randomly murdered or incarcerated.
These experiences alone can easily cause long-term poverty. They all occurred, facts which are easily verifiable. What keeps people from ever asking these questions, “why are they poor”, “why is their music violent”, “why do they dress like thugs”, and instead coming up with the substantial fluff that fills this (and most online/anonymous comment sections) is a very complex subject.
Like one comment suggests, to even frame a question such as “do blacks xxx” first generalizes a diverse set of people, then suggests that these crimes are committed because of who they are. This is an incredibly absurd, slippery slope argument.
The only end to that slope is that this certain group is ‘predisposed’ to being this stereotyped way. Which would boil down to genetics. Which would be an argument straight from the 1800’s. “Africans are genetically inferior, uncivilized, and… do they even have souls?”
Show me another race that has tried so hard to not become a part of society by self segregating, creating a subculture that they don’t want others to emulate, freely disrespect every other race, name their children names to purposely make them stand apart of society, and do all they can to not fit in to the acceptable limits imposed upon all of society, then claim everyone else is to blame for their hardships. The Germans killed well over the 6 million recognized figure of Jews and about 40 million in all during WW2 but don’t have anywhere near the problems America does for its former use of slaves. The Jews have prospered because they don’t systematically slaughter their own or those around them at every chance. Germany is seen as a great country and not ostracized.
When every other nationality came to America, they quickly gave their children the names of those commonly used here, and even dropped ethnic last names in order to give them and their children the best chance to prosper and blend in. They didn’t lose their identity or their pride in their heritage. They chose to blend in and adopt the ways of the masses so as to not be singled out. The Japanese lost everything during the war and were put into internment camps. They came back through hard work and sacrifice.
Blacks don’t do this. They choose to blame racism, and whites for their every single problem while refusing to accept any responsibility for their actions now. #blacklivesmatter only when it’s not a black person that takes it. There can be 10 murders a night in Chicago and no one marches, no one loots, no one cares. But if a black dies during a police confrontation, even if the black involved is attacking them, and ends up dead, then it’s a national tragedy and an act of racist police. Yes there are innocent blacks who die at the hands of bad cops. And those hopefully get brought to light quickly and those officers charged with murder. Yes coverups happen as well. Sadly it is far too common. But where is the anger at themselves for killing each other. 52% of murders committed by 15% of the population. Be it poverty, be it culture, be it any number of factors, the fact remains they are a violent group of people. If you culled every fight video from YouTube it would be easily 90% black aggressors. Easily 90%. I wish we could discuss race in a way that doesn’t end in anger and accusations and that people didn’t run from their responsibility.
Very well said. I agree a 100%. I work as an armed security officer in prominently black apartment complexes in Tampa, FL and I see it first hand. There are hard working people who live in these complexes, but unfortunately very few. Most are living off the government and not even thinking about looking for a job. They don’t want a job. Most of the young people have no regard for anyone, not even their neighbors. If it wasn’t for the fact that there are cops to keep them in check, they would take over the streets and you bleeding hearts would become their pray. So, when you see a cop, thank him or her for putting their life on the line day and night to keep you safe. If you have a security officer in your complex, stop and thank him/her for keeping an eye out for you while you sleep.
US Navy Vet
Lakeland, FL
Hi, Everything has a cause and effect. Lets forget slavery and Jim crow…
What happened in the 60’s and 70’s was a very calculating move by J-EDGAR HOOVER and the FBI to destroy the black family.
it is all there for all to see.
just go and look for CO-INTELPRO…. And while your at it, look up Gary Webbe’s stuff Called “Dark alliance” and see what reagan and North did. also Nixon…
you may also wanna look for a documentary called “the reconstruction” these my friend would give you an insight as to how Black americans derived at this point of hopelessness. Not making excuses for anyone. But just hi-lighting the truth.
As for Germany and the jews and the Japanese, Well, the jews were wealthy in Germany before ww2 started. I fact this was part of the reason for the hate shown towards them. and after the war, reparations were paid. the same for the Japanese after Hiroshima. As well as the Japanese in america who were put in camps and had all their possessions taken. NOW!! If you truly wanna look at the African Americans with a fair assessment, please go and look for these videos i wrote above. but let’s not discuss with hate or ill intent nor biasses. i feel it’s important to talk about these things. for me it is the anecdote to most problems. communication.
I’ve read all of the comments in this thread and JMR’s makes the most sense and hit’s the point the most….hands down.
All you see every night on the news is black people committing crimes . They have nothing better to do but ruin their life & become a criminal.
Awesome thanks for speaking the truth that’s the problem of this country everybody’s afraid of the blacks people don’t want to take responsibility for their own actions and your right it’s 13% of the population that they commit 50% of all murders and since 1985 250000 blacks were killed by other blacks where’s the outrage they’re a bunch of hypocrites and yes they are living in the past which they had no part of they are alive today and they should get over the past and stop blaming white people and racism for all their problems everything you said was right on
Your claim of 15% of the population is too high. For one, the US census of 2010 puts the African American population at 12.6% of the total, and the problem is almost exclusively black males, even more specifically, black males between the ages of 15 and 25. < 3% of the population of the US is the cause of so many problems, as not all of that demographic lives the thug life. This demographic commits more homicides, by pure number, than the same group of whites males, even though they are outnumbered by more than 6 times. And some wonder why there is a natural suspicion of this demographic? The ones who glorify the thug life, the ones who live the thug life. Yes, not all members of this demographic are thugs, but there are too many to ignore the profile. So that's about 9.25 million if we want to go with around 3% of the population. That's an average of around 180,000 thugs in each of the top 50 cities in the US. Of course, there is quite a difference in size between those 50 cities and some are more densely populated with thugs than cities of larger size, but you get the idea.
You gotta love when the article above presents the verified statistics and ccommenters like this one still can’t get them right. Try at least reading the article before you come in with your made up stats copied from storm front.
Try these stats on for size:
-72 percent of serial killers are white men
-62 percent of mass shooters are white men
-60 percent of convicted rapists are white men
For a group (non Hispanic white men) that only makes up 30 percent of the US population that’s concerning! White men are committing more crime in proportion to their representation in the population! So it’s ok to assume they are all criminals! It’s ok for cops to circumvent due process by killing them in the streets!
See what I did there?
You have the nerve to talk about what’s intellectually dishonest.
Its amazing how white America tries to justify every single controversial topic. I understand your points on black on black and crime rates. Have u ever lived in poverty? Have u ever grew up in a neighborhood where there only liquor stores, dollar stores, bars and drug dealers. Some of us commit crimes becuase its the only way we are going to eat that day. In no way trying to defend crimes. Its just Something most white america wouldnt understand. Our people get discouraged because some of us try very hard, just to be rejected or turned away. It takes a toll on us mentally and emotionally.
For an example, if ethan couch was BLACK he would be in jail but when a white kid commits murder or some other crime the american justice system will say they have a mental condition from being privileged. IF tyrone was up there he wouldnt stand a chance. Noone ever thought that maybe he was mentally unstable for growing up with NOTHING but ramen noodles and poverty stricken lives. Smfh people can be so closed minded and blind
If we’re just talking about murder, robbery or bambling then yeah I agree but looking at figures from the FBI’s table 43 whites are almost two times as likely to cause as much crime as black people or any other race so before you go pointing fingers remember: NO ONE IS A SAINT! NOT WHITES NOT BLACKS NOT ANYONE!!!! Look before you point fingers and while you’re at it why don’t we all try FIXING OUR CULTURE AND TRY BEING MORE OPEN AND CARING ABOUT YOU”RE FELLOW AMERICAN!!!!!
We’re talking about causality. You are sticking to facts, but confusing appearances with causes. This is a complex societal issue and if you cared to investigate the issue of systemic racism, you would begin to see this issue in its truest aspects.
The fact that you state that black people don’t care about the the issue of violence within their own communities is the red flag that you do need to dig deeper.
Institutionalized violence, generations growing up without fathers, a deeply held sense of stigma and societal ostracizeation, lack of access to adequate schooling, the oppressive counterforce of government handouts, the violent subculture, exposure to drugs and illicit lewd sexualization….it goes on and on. the result is that young people in these communities resort to or get mixed up in the violence and crime around them.
People on the whole are not extraordinary – they are ordinary. Most people are not that bright, they’re susceptible to pressure and expectations (even vastly lowered ones in their communities). They pick up very bad habits from those around them – peers, parents. They are exposed to the worst elements in their public schools (and often in the home).
Ordinary people treated like rats will behave like rats. What is very telling is the statistics of how these people behave once they grow up a bit. Most of the crime is committed by juveniles and young adults. Once they get to be about 35 or 40, most of these people have realized how sick their culture is. They begin to start families, educate themselves, and strive to become middle class. It is a vortex that is very hard to pull out of.
Many spend their lives in jail for actions committed when they were very young. Listen to the voices of the incarcerated! Those that are over 40 are wise, brave and willing to help to change the world and the system, but they are stuck in the system.
Instead of embracing ideological positions that serve to separate us, look to educate yourself with an eye towards being a person who can offer a strong arm to help rebuild our wounded society. then we call all move forward together.
J M R You are a genius! I wish I could have explained the situation as well as you did! I think I learned some things from you’re post that will help me explain this situation better in the future! Maybe you should run for President!
I can think of one other Race who pretty much does the same thing that you’re talking about! the Hispanspics! I live in Texas. I’m sure you understand.
‘
the Hipster race
If i’m summarizing correctly you are insinuating that black people should have come to America and murdered their cultural identity? One group that has tried harder not to assimilate, Caucasian people during colonization everywhere they went they destroyed the culture and set up their own infrastructure. Why is it that white people are able to keep hard to pronounce european names. It seems to me that because white people have lost their cultural identity, and become simply white, you are trying to rob everyone else of the same thing.
Last time I checked, Japanese Americans were still using their Japanese names. So much for that excuse. And Africans that migrate here don’t change their names either, and they are doing exceptionally well. So you just don’t like “black-sounding” names. Too bad for you.
When white cops kill blacks, they are never prosecuted for their crimes. This is not the case for black on black crime of course. The perpetrators WILL face justice if caught. And this is precisely the point that BLM makes. That cops should be tried and convicted for their crimes against black people. But it seems that in America today, even that is too much to demand.
JMR- You are either ignorant or insane both I’d rather not be. Your foolishness is the real reason why this Nation will never live in harmony. Your statements are fact-less and field with blame and same with no interest in the entire truth. You spew this ridiculous sentiment based on your opinion with some minuscule insertion of a few facts to bolster your BS. Bottom line is, until the old guard of white America, with their disingenuous beliefs and fear die off nothing will ever change. The system you created has now come back to roost. The country was founded on Death, crimes against humanity, rape, theft and pillaging. Our ancestry stole people from their homes, brought them to another country naked, and afraid. Beat them into submission, raped their women, killed their men for attempting to flee this brutality and forced them into 400 years of free labor. Then once they built this Nation with with the blood, sweat and tears, they were so called freed at some point. Oh but no you didn’t stop there and wiped the slate clean, you then created the convict leasing System where you were able to say a black person committed a crime in order to keep slave labor. That was abolished during Reconstruction 1855-1877. Oh but no that wasn’t enough, Jim Crow 1890-1914 were there were multiple riots and more killings of blacks who were trying to gain their own wealth and systems to provide for themselves and your people wouldn’t have it. 1895 New Orleans, Wilmington insurrection 1898 aka Wilmington massacre of 1898, The event marks an era of more severe racial segregation and effective disenfranchisement of African-Americans throughout the South, a shift already underway since passage by Mississippi of a new constitution in 1890 raising barriers to voter registration. Laura Edwards wrote in Democracy Betrayed (2000), “What happened in Wilmington became an affirmation of white supremacy not just in that one city, but in the South and in the nation as a whole. Atlanta Ga race riot 1906 through 109 multiple riots conducted by white people. 1917 4 cites held race riots that year. 1920 1944- 12 race riots in ,multiple cities including the Tulsa 1921 Massacre-killing some 300 people, mostly blacks. The attack, carried out on the ground and by air, destroyed more than 35 blocks of the district, then the wealthiest black community in the nation. More than 800 people were admitted to hospitals and more than 6,000 black residents were arrested and detained, some for as many as eight days.[2] The official count of the dead by the Oklahoma Bureau of Vital Statistics was 39.
The attack left an estimated 10,000 people homeless. Fire destroyed 1,256 homes and 191 businesses, as well as the community’s churches, junior high school, and hospitals. Thousands of whites rampaged through the black community, killing men and women, burning and looting stores and homes. Some blacks claimed that policemen had joined the mob; others claimed that a machine gun was fired into the black community and a plane dropped sticks of dynamite. [3] In an eyewitness account discovered in 2015, Greenwood attorney Buck Colbert Franklin describes watching a dozen or more airplanes drop burning balls of turpentine on the city’s rooftops. So you tell me what the HELL?. And things haven’t changed. You see this is the history of this country against its own people.
Why is it that crimes committed by African Americans has gone up steadily since the 1960s? If the crime had something to do with slavery and segregation shouldn’t it go down after those things ended? If it was genetic it wouldn’t make sense for the crime to fluctuate like that would it? Is it possible that this rise is because of a change in culture, and values in the African American community?
@John xzander
“Why is it that crimes committed by African Americans has gone up steadily since the 1960s? If the crime had something to do with slavery and segregation shouldn’t it go down after those things ended? If it was genetic it wouldn’t make sense for the crime to fluctuate like that would it? Is it possible that this rise is because of a change in culture, and values in the African American community?”
Your assumption is incorrect. Black violent crime was low for a long time, especially following Abolition of slavery. Then it want up for a time and has been going down since.
One study done on data from rural Louisiana in the decades following Abolition found that black violent crime was almost non-existent while white violent crime was extremely high. Later data in some early 20th century cities showed that various ethnic groups were far more violent than were blacks. Plus, during that era of late 1800s and early 1900s, blacks had high marriage rates, high unemployment rates, and high economic mobility rates.
That changed around the 1960s when the factories left the inner cities just as the black population was becoming majority urban, and then redlining and sundown towns trapped blacks in the inner cities that no longer had enough jobs available. It was simultaneously the beginning of the war on drugs which, of course, was a war on minorities where blacks were arrested and imprisoned more even for drug and gun crimes that whites committed at higher rates. It has been estimated that at least 6% of people in prison are innocent of all crimes, often because of coerced false confessions as prosecutors have great power to threaten people. School-to-prison pipeline and mass incarceration destroyed families and communities.
It’s important when making comments to know what you are talking about. This is even more true when you are being righteously condescending toward those you know so little about.
Hey Jay, when does personal responsibility come into play?
@mohamadjohnson –
“Hey Jay, when does personal responsibility come into play?”
For centuries and continuing to this day, African-Americans having been asking European-Americans that very question.
Every white person wants to deny being a racist and supremacist. Yet racial biases and privileges have been proven to exist in so many aspects of our society. These very white people benefit from this systemic and institutional injustice even as they deny it.
When will those who are complicit take personal responsibility?
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/11/28/structural-racism-and-personal-responsibility/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/working-hard-but-for-what/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/08/31/the-myth-of-weak-and-broken-black-families/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/07/20/americans-left-behind-iq-education-poverty-race-ethnicity/
Like one comment suggests, to even frame a question such as “do blacks xxx” first generalizes a diverse set of people, then suggests that these crimes are committed because of who they are. This is an incredibly absurd, slippery slope argument.
The author of this article did not “frame the question”… he is only responding to the absurdity that blacks are imprisoned disproportionately when compared to whites. There is no slippery slope in framing this question, only a path to the facts in questioning why are blacks arrested or convicted at a higher rate? Maybe because they disproportionately commit crimes, they are disproportionately poor, etc… “Do Blacks XXX?” is a direct counter argument to the argument that asks “do blacks get arrested disproportionately or receive harsher sentencing?” So, claiming that it is a slippery slope to searching for the actual reason that is seems blacks are arrested or sentenced at a disproportionate rate compared to whites is absurd. This article is only pointing out the facts behind the reasoning for the seemingly racist practices, which are clearly not occurring. For example, the article points out that “38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black”, yet blacks make up only 13% Of the population. There is a perfect example of why blacks are disproportionately arrested or convicted… because they are committing more crimes…
@A. Bramhall –
“This article is only pointing out the facts behind the reasoning for the seemingly racist practices, which are clearly not occurring.”
The only problem with your conclusion is that vast amount of research proves you wrong. There is no debate that racial biases exist—institutionally, systemically, and implicitly. We can debate about what these racial biases mean. But there is no rational discussion to be had about their existence.
“For example, the article points out that “38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black”, yet blacks make up only 13% Of the population. There is a perfect example of why blacks are disproportionately arrested or convicted… because they are committing more crimes…”
As I and many others have pointed out, arrest rates aren’t the same as crime rates. FBI arrest rates don’t even determine if those arrests lead to convictions. Plus, as studies have shown, blacks get arrested more even for crimes whites commit more.
For example, the war on drugs has focused primarily on blacks, especially poor black neighborhoods and communities. A disproportionate amount of officers’ time, effort, and resources have been direct at blacks. Unsurprisingly, in patrolling black areas more, they stop and frisk blacks more.
For drug crimes, police arrest blacks more, convict blacks more often, and convict blacks more harshly and for longer terms. Yet whites use drugs at the same or higher rates than blacks, abuse drugs at higher rates than blacks, carry drugs at higher rates than blacks, and sell drugs at higher rates than blacks. Not only is this a higher rate of drug-related crimes, but because whites are a larger population it is also a larger number of whites committing drug-related crimes. Even when the crime is exactly the same, blacks get harsher punishment and longer sentences.
Also, consider a study such as the following (many more like it). Officers are more likely to perceive blacks as carrying a gun when they are not carrying a gun. And officers are more likely to perceive whites as not carrying gun when they are carrying a gun. This probably relates to other data that showed blacks were more likely to be arrested for weapons-related crimes, even though at least in some areas whites were more likely to carry illegal weapons.
So, there are just a few perfect examples of why blacks are disproportionately arrested or convicted… because of proven racial biases… and that doesn’t even consider the racial biases studies have found in numerous other areas of society, from employment to housing, from education to healthcare.
When you say the notion that blacks are inherently more prone to violence is a slippery slope what you mean is you refuse to consider the possibility that it could be true no matter what the evidence.
That makes no sense whatsoever. Do th math. Black males 14-35 make up 3% of US population. Yet are responsible for over 50% of murders and other violent crimes. That’s exactly why the incarceration rate is what it is for that specific demographic.
Now the initial question that lumps all blacks into a single category…are they inherently more violent….id have to say if you took a random 10,000 person sample from every race, blacks would likely be more likely to react violently than others. It’s a cultural difference that is planted very early on in their lives. But are all blacks violent, no. No all of anything can be labeled by an emotional marker.
Unfortunately the major has you that for years about people of african heritage…..but the truth is the ones who push those thoughts are insecure and know civilization started in Africa over 200000 years ago every rule law and mathmatical equation iscrooted in Africa….Any person with a brain could see if you try that hard to condem a whole race of people there reason far beyond…..the illusion…..
Noted your comment. No racism intended; just chasing the facts. With Africa having the longest habitation by man and arguably more natural resources than any other continent why is it the poorest and most violent place on earth?
So far that strategy works.
A long time ago? How many wars have “WHITE PEOPLE BEEN IN” ? INSLAVED a people, genocide on Native Americans, on aborigines in Australia, bombing of Japan, Germany, Russia 100million dead World war 1 and 2 Vietnam over a million murdered in a false war, Cambodia, colonialism in all of Africa Asia from India to China , the Caribbean, South America, colonialism, war in drugs over 50,000 killed in Mexico in last 10 years though policy, war on terror. ….white people sadly safely tucked in suburbs…promoting policy to kill more people, everywhere, all the time…cancer, drug industry, cooperate crime, eviomental polution…please study History and current events
And when called out for discrimination and racism, just bring up patriotism and the flag…deflect-deflect-deflect!
I wouldn’t even deny the crime statistics showing that the black community has a disproportionately high crime rate for its population level. Black people have no problem accepting that.
Our problem is with whites who refuse to accept the fact that race statistics are the third biggest form of lie, and should always be viewed with suspicion – even when they have some basis.
Our second problem is that whites refuse to accept the fact that high black crime rates and black conplaints about discrimination can co-exist. In fact, they are highly consistent with each other.
Drug and gun crimes are rampant in urban and rural communities, but the drugs and guns are supplied by whites who do not live in those communities.
Furthermore, of course people who are oppressed will be more prone to involvement in criminal activity. They have to eat!!!
If you can’t find a job you’re likely to get involved in activities threat are deemed illegal.
Hence, discrimination and black crime have a causal relationship. White people need to quit acting like black crime, poverty and racism/discrimination aren’t related, because they very much are.
If you have to eat maybe you should quit buying Jordans and designer clothes. Rolling in your rides with your 22s. Spending 100s on your weaves and braids. Stop getting tattooed up( which cost 100s) where no company wants that to represent them. Pull your DAMN pants up( We don’t want to see your ass) Talk like you have some sort of sense instead of Ebonics and now you might be able to get a job. Blaming the white man for your problems isn’t the answer. BTW you say you need to eat. This is why you are doing criminal activity is not going to go over well when we see you spending money on the things that were mentioned at the top of this post.
Saying that the past has nothing to do with the present lacks credibility. However, if you believe that racism and racial basis no longer exist and have no impact on the lives of Americans, then give the date (with supporting evidence) when racism ended and white people stopped believing in their supremacy over black people. If you can’t provide an exact date, just give the year. Good luck with that.
Do you know anything about history? Europeans surly didn’t have the corner on war or killing. Do you know nothing about the tribal wars of Africa, South and North America? The fact that one Asian general was responsible for killing a large percentage of the world’s population?
None of that has anything to do with anything. The fact of the matter is that today seven percent of the American population is responsible for fifty percent of the homicides and other crimes of violence. That seven percent are not northern Europeans.
You write that 7% of the population is responsible for 50% of the homicides. That is not correct. Blacks make up about 14% of the U.S. population, approximately half of that 14% are males. But homicide are not distributed evenly across the population of males. Violent crime is most often committed by males between the ages of 16 and 30 (give or take a year or so on other end). So in reality the vast majority of our murders are committed by a small subset of that 7%.
The leading cause of death for young American males is accidents, except for young black males where the leading cause of death is homicide at the hands of other young black malese who look like Obama’s son if he had one.
It is also important to know that when examining FBI crimes statisics that there is not a classification for Hispanic. Hispanics are classified as white. So the 50% of our homicides that not committed by White but, are committed by a mixture of Hispanics, people from the middle east, and europeans. Basically everyone who is not Black or American Indian is counted by the FBI as white. (These catagories were developed in the early 1930s.)
America is a very safe place to live, unless you live in one of the inter cities, usually run by democrats.
We read a lot of about guns, poverty and crime. The real poor in America are not found in the big cities, but in rural areas of the Appalachian Mountains. The coal mines have shut down and subsistence farming is commonplace. Drug use is high and gun ownership is universal. Violent crime rate is very low. Who lives there? White, dirt poor hillbillies. The only escape is join the army.
Your math is a little bit off there Einstein…. 14% is 14%..think about it and adjust your comment (s)
You made a very well thought out Argument I try to explain to people all the time that poverty doesn’t equate to violence. I live in rural Appalachia, West Virginia to be exact. Nearly 55 percent of the people in my county live below the poverty line and and about half of them are dirt poor. Murders don’t happen, rapes don’t happen, a lot of drug use does though… The culture of black America is the biggest threat to black youth, not the police or anything else
“Do you know anything about history? Europeans surly didn’t have the corner on war or killing.” True. I’d also like to make the point that all of those people who like to bring up our violent imperialistic past do so as the ancestors of people who never had their hands on serious world spanning power or found themselves locked in titanic struggles with other massive powers over vast territories and resources to begin with.It’s easy to judge when you’ve never had enough power to ever be corrupted by it.
The way of the world 200 years ago…. conquer or be conquered. Not agreeing with it, but it was fact. Everywhere. Unfortunately, much of the middle east and Africa are still trying to live that way. If we can all stop with the “woe is me, look what happened to my ______ ancestors 200 years ago” and blaming our own lives on that, we can all move forward. Everyone wants to blame someone else for their own personal problems and failures. Get over it…. take responsibility for your own life.
No one is denying race violence by Africans in the past as well as the present. However, the fact is that most whites don’t admit a thing. If we are all guilty of violence then why they emphasis on Blacks. I agree. Blacks were the first imperialists. But that doesn’t make whites any less wrong for what they are doing now. White denial, and their moral self-righteousness denies the reality of what is going on all over the world.
White America commits crimes through its privilege, and its fighting to maintain that privilege. This is violence of the worst kind. So many white on black crimes have been ignored throughout history, as well as today. Welfare didn’t become welfare until blacks received it. You didn’t call it welfare when you were receiving the lion’s share of all the benefits from the New Deal (Social Security, low interest VA loans, and a whole host of other privileges). We were denied access based on a deal Roosevelt made with southern Democrats to prohibit domestic workers and agricultural workers from receiving these benefits. Whites had it all, and they did not care not one bit what it meant for us. Yet, when affirmative action was passed most whites nearly lost their minds. The New Deal was the very first case of “Affirmative Action for whites.” For all the time we have been here, unlike many white organizations we have never waged or threatened race war. You lynched us for nearly one hundred years and the government protected you. You have never properly commended Blacks on the fact that they have somehow managed not to pick you off the way you did us. So you have no moral ground to criticize Blacks for violence. And the violence against us didn’t stop until we fought back, and we had to die for the right to do that. I think you’re afraid that you’re going to have to pay through the nose for all the wrong you’ve done, and all the wrong you ignore–and that’s why whites are quietly arming themselves. Blacks do commit crimes, and so do you. I’ve seen white people hold guns on police and they don’t lose their lives. And if you think you know more about us than we do, than you need to walk in our shoes for a lifetime and I guarantee you that you’d change your tune. Whites serial kill more than any other race; whites mass kill more than any other race–and you KNOW THIS! Whites do more corporate and White collar crime than anyone else on the planet. There is more corporate theft than all the robberies and other graft carried out by everyday hoods put together. As we speak, corporate America (white people) are responsible for the deaths of millions, perhaps billions of Third World people. Mostly whites make the bombs, the weapons for chemical warfare, and the drones. Whites took over parts of Africa and murdered millions to do it. It’s just that you do these things with impunity. Right now, Africa is paying the west $250,000 per minute ILLEGALLY. When the colonial countries left Africa they illegally passed their debt onto the countries that kicked them out. This was a violation of international law aided and abetted by the IMA and the World Bank. So if you want to talk about crime then let’s really talk about it. I’m not saying that Blacks are not capable of crime. What I am saying is that as a white person you are in no moral position to judge. As the international crime wave of whites against the Third World rises to astronomical proportions it might serve you not to be blind. Your racism makes you blind. That’s why you can’t see–or don’t know about these things. You don’t want to know because it’s so much easier to not face who you are, and what you and yours have allowed for so long; and we won’t even mention the fact that you are living in America swimming in the blood of Native Americans and Black slaves. You need to wake up. Because even if you and yours manage to murder all the Blacks on earth, you will still wind up living with each other; and that’s when the real slaughter will begin. You’ve always killed and exploited your own kind, as has every other race on earth. But you can’t admit it, and that will be your downfall. Because if you can’t admit it, you can’t change; and that means that sooner or later, when all the Blacks have left this insane place for a better, more loving place leaving you to your white world, someone “white” will be coming for you.
So if there is institutional racism, how is it that immigrants from every race, to include blacks from Africa, can move here, be dirt poor, not even speak the language, send their kids to the same bad schools and yet within a generation or two their kids are going college? If the Kenyans and Ethiopians can do it, what’s going on with the African Americans?
The African civilization is supposed to be the beginning of civilization, the dominant genes. Why didn’t the Africans leave Africa? Why don’t they now leave Africa? If things are bad where you are…you have the choice to leave. Blame all the whites you want… white people internationally are not the Majority. Blame yourself for doing nothing and letting others control you.
Wow. Ms Grinage, I may not agree with everything you say but that is the most educated, beautifully written comment I’ve ever seen on the internet. I hope everyone is listening. We need more commentators like you in the discussion on race relations in America. Powerful stuff. Thank you.
Actually. It’s really only in America that there is this black and white hate thing. In France they hate Arabs. They put blacks above Arabs there. It’s interesting. Even in countries like Brazil and other Latin American countries they don’t have this distates for blacks. Even in England they teach that the Ancient Egyptians were black.
Can I please copy this? Very well written.
VERY well, coherently, historically-accurately, and articulately put!
What people can never understand experientially are the effects that long-term institutionalized, systematic, financial and sociological oppression, discrimination and segregation have on an individual and groups of people unless they experience it first hand themselves!
In Hawaii, I am always bemused by non-Hawaiian visitors if they feel in any slightest way discriminated against by the native Hawaiians. They are SO indignant and traumatized. I ask them what do you think that would feel like if it happened to you on a daily basis throughout your entire life?
They couldn’t even begin to imagine what THAT might be like. After all one incidence was more than they could handle.
Just imagine if the non-black population of America had to endure having state-sanctioned legislations such as Jim Crow Laws and the outright invisible racial resentments silently focused towards them at the slightest provocation.
Hard work and dedication don’t always pay off. In fact, it seldom does. Without a proper NETWORK, expensive education, and connections hard work and dedication do not amount to much. Not everyone is born with massive potential and intellectual gifts. And it is very much a case of not what one knows but WHO one knows that does make all the difference in one’s ascension to the upper echelons of American society. Impoverished, underprivileged blacks still reeling from decades of oppression and stigmatization have precious little chance of connecting to those circles.
White privileged are you kidding me the majority of whites I know which are middle class like myself all work 60-70 hours a week just to have 1/3 of there check taken by the government and distributed to these welfare abusing low life’s (yes white, black ect) who refuse to work, not cant find a job but have realized its a lot easier to sit on your ass all day and collect a free check, that’s the culture I government has created, I grew up dirt poor, poverty is not owned by blacks just like slavery isn’t owned by blacks thtough out history most people’s ancestors were enslaved at one time, if blacks would focus all there hatred and blaming toward whites into bettering there race and community it would solve slot of these problems, I work with and live near blacks who work hard just like I do and they are just as discussed by these poor me blacks as the rest of us are, so make your excuses and blame everyone but yourselves and you will stay exactly where you are now, I have yet to meet a hard working dedicated black person who lives the thug life and blames others for his problems, but hell what do I know I’m just a racist white guy living on all this privilege, oh well time for work
The majority of the ‘white’ world you refer to doesn’t exist. White is the minority in the world. Keep blaming ‘white’ for your problems and the reasons you act a fool. History tends to repeat itself, and if that has proven anything, you will never get out of the hovel that you cannot and never have, nor will, build for yourself(ves).
Chicago provides some sobering data. They publish a very extensive murder report on an annual basis
Chicago’s population is 1/3 black 1/3 white and 1/3 hispanic, asian and other
Whites commit about 4% of the murders
Blacks Commit almost 80% of the murders
Others commit about 20%
It is not about skin color but rather about racial driven cultures. With the advent of rap music you had billionaire media moguls flooding black culture with messages glorifying the gangsa lifestyle, violence, drugs , and the abuse of women. Concurrently we had a continuing surge in births to young , never married black women , most of whom never finished high school.
For the poverty pimps this was wonderful. In earlier days Jessie Jackson challenged young blacks to excel in academics , business, sciences etc. It brought out the best in America with thousands of businesses not only meeting the standards of affirmative action but going much further.
With the flood of rap, gangs, crack and heroin the trajectories of black and white communities again diverged. You have to have lived in a neighborhood with an encamped army of crack and heroin addicts to understand what happens to employment opportunities and businesses flee. The continuing admission of millions of illegals also removed the opportunities for young blacks to find entry level jobs. At one time McDonalds was the largest first time employer of young blacks . However in most the language of the kitchen is now spanish.
The organizations doing the best to integrate blacks in paths to success are the American military. Although held in disdain by most liberals a young Marine NCO will have vastly better leadership skills than his civilian counterparts including graduates of many MBA programs. They will also be far better versed in living an ethical , meaningful life than those on Wall Street or Congress.
We need to accept that black entertainment changes culture and 99% of the culture change is harmful to the most vulnerable. Let’s not stay stuck on stupid.
Good thing there are white people here to tell people all about a culture they know nothing about.
You think rap is the only form of music black people listen to? You think all rap is about violence?
When was the last time you listened to a rap or hip hop station for several hours? I am guessing..never.
I listen every day, know what I hear? Check your self before you wreck yourself, Today was a Good Day, and hundreds of other songs…none of which promote violence..
imbucile. time for growth
Well said, we’ll said.
Crime rates among the african american population have everything to do with poverty and low educational attainment which leads to low opportunity. it has very little to do with a deficiency of “culture”. In my opinion, the deficient culture argument is simply the new stand in for the genetic deficiency argument of old. it’s simply the new way of saying that there is something inherently wrong with black people that explains these social ills. First it was inherent in our genes, and now the argument is that its inherent in our “culture”. In my view, both arguments emanate from the same racist place.
Most white people who like the deficient culture argument will read the above and conclude I’m saying that its all about racism. That would be the knee jerk reaction all too typical of whites with this view, and it is the reaction that essentially lets you stop grappling with the issue of poverty. Poor communities have these pathologies. When our communities are more prosperous, there is less of this. Its really pretty simple.
Someone cited rural communities as examples of high poverty areas where violence is low. Those communities may not have high murder rates, but I’m quite certain there are a host of other social ills present, some in shocking numbers. But you’re not calling them deficient in culture.
Lastly, this whole discussion is kicked off by police killings of unarmed black people when a police officer kills a black persona who is unarmed under circumstances which a reasonable person looks at and questions the officer’s actions. The issue of the lack of accountability for police for unnecessary killings of unarmed black people is not diminished or explained away by the issue of crime in the community.
If a police officer should not have killed a person, they should not have killed them. The fact that the person is black and there are high crime rates in the black community doesn’t change the rightness or wrongness of the police action. If the cop should not have killed the person, they should not have killed them. If it was wrong has nothing to do with crime rates. Wrong is wrong.
I live in a very rural area in Michigan. We have a very high poverty rate. We DO have crime, lots of it. It tends to be petty burglary, drunk driving, domestic abuse, and what the police call: mutual combat. Minor crimes. Lots of minor crimes. Murder, rape, major assault, and other super violent crime is rather rare around here. I am going to also put it out there that child abuse and neglect are VERY common in rural communities. Last year, a postman found three naked and horribly abused children when he tried to deliver the mail. Our town has set up a child crisis center, and as a school bus driver myself, the sheer amount of children that were neglected was heartbreaking. Poverty is the number one predictor of child abuse, therefore, it would probably be safe to assume that poverty is also a major predictor of crime as well.
@ Valerie
“I live in a very rural area in Michigan. We have a very high poverty rate. We DO have crime, lots of it.”
It is strange all these commenters who are so clueless. A ton of research validates your personal observations. Everywhere poverty is concentrated in neighborhoods and communities, no matter race or ethnicity, there is greater crime and violence. This is just common sense. This is also obvious to anyone who isn’t disconnected from the reality of poverty. These commenters living in denial must have never seen real poverty in their life, specifically white poverty. How can people be stuck in such a state of denial?
I think that non blacks, hispanics/whites/asians, generally have disdain for blacks. Why…..who knows for sure? All i know is that it hasn’t gotten better under the first black/white president, only significantly worse. As part Hawaiian/white i fear the future…..not for me but blacks. If there is a race war they will be slaughtered. I pray for peace.
The most bewildering thing is most of the people claiming blacks are more prone to crime and generally envisioning burglars and murderers as black people are themselves white people living in poverty. They’re usually in mostly if not entirely white communities with little interaction with other races… I don’t know how to describe it, but there were plenty of black people that would come into the local walmart where we worked. There were very few blacks that worked there, and the white people were quick to gossip and malign them, not specifically for color but usually that was the subtext.
The people, both black and white, that would come in on food stamps were nigh alien to we, the workers at that walmart. I don’t know what it was and I don’t know what it is now, but there is an invisible class barrier that separates every single “caste” and makes people’s ways of life impossible to rationalize at the surface. Now that I have moved on and entered the next caste above my walmart days, the people I grew up with still stuck there have become alien to me as well. I don’t like it, I don’t understand why it is this way, but when you meet people who do not hold the same values as you or live a similar lifestyle, you get confused and you get guarded.
I think poverty gets ignored because of this – because people on either side of the invisible barrier can’t understand or appreciate the lifestyle/values of those on the other side. If anything, it’s more reason why we need community leaders that feed into local governments that feed into the central government, rather than shifting all power into the hands of a small selection of already rich people.
A little late to the party, but the rap music is not to blame for the problems, the rap music reflects on the culture, it does not perpetrate it nor does it cause it
You Americans are some really stupid people. Bickering over stats when that’s NOT the issue. This is why there will NEVER be ANY type of equality in America … none of you can get on the same page. Everyone just spewing forth ignorance about this, that and the other and NO ONE addressing the REAL issue. No damn wonder the Presidential race has idiots on both sides and you people do NOT do ANYTHING to try to better it in the least. Trump is an egomaniac that will get you all killed and Hillary will sell you out to the highest bidding terrorists before she takes the Oath of Office. Complete and utter fools!!!
I don’t think it’s the skin color that matters, but cultural association. And there happens to be a general correlation between skin color and cultural association.
Except he clearly states that the poverty angle has been extensively researched and the results are mixed. Of course, you don’t see too many riots or excessive murder rates in the much more deprived white areas of Appalachia.
When people live miles away from each other they are less likely to involve more people in violence, a hick shooting a gun in Appalachia is not at risk of hitting more people, and are at less risk of being caught.
Why do you think all the meth is cooked up there?
Liz, how would you know where all the meth is made?
@Tee
“how would you know where all the meth is made?”
Well, you could look it up. This kind of data isn’t hard to find.
Meth production and use has been the highest in the rural Upper South (e.g., Appalachia), the rural Midwest, and rural areas in general. Meth is probably the biggest drug problem in states like Iowa, where I live.
But some of that is changing. There has been an increase in meth production in cities, and along with that probably an increase of meth use in cities.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/meth-states_n_4057372.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3805074
http://rt.com/usa/areas-us-drug-meth-040/
Meth is not made in the smoky mountains and hasn’t been for over a decade. It’s almost exclusive to Mexican super labs. Some toothless dope may make up a batch that gets him a few grams at best now and then. That’s it
…unless our sports team wins…
1. Indiana
2. Tennessee
3.Missouri
4. Ohio
5. Illinois
6. Michigan
Philip,
“However, the implication that somebody commits murder JUST BECAUSE of the colour of his/her skin is both deeply offensive and stupid given the (white) West’s recorded history of war, colonialism and genocide. That too is avoided like the cultural plague it is.”
I’m always glad when I see someone bring up that point. It is one of the most obvious points that can be made and yet it rarely is made. The silence on that issue in the MSM and public debate is deafening.
The worst mass atrocities in world history have been committed by white-majority governments, including illegal wars of aggression such as the Iraq War (wars of aggression are both illegal by US law and international law, which makes it not only a crime against humanity but also a war crime). That is particularly true in America. Even the worst racial riots in America were committed by whites (e.g., Tulsa). Also, whites in this country are more likely to commit crimes such as serial murder, mass shootings, and bombings.
The number of people killed by both white individuals and governments is massive. That puts American black violence rates in vast perspective.
You need to stop reading social justice warrior sociology books and pick up some history books. Race is not simply White vs. Black. Each comprises of hundreds of different subsections. To even generalize about all “White” People is incredibly racist. Besides that Arab kingdoms took more slaves from Africa than Europe and castrated them.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/06/02/10-facts-about-the-arab-enslavement-of-black-people-not-taught-in-schools/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade
http://www.aina.org/news/2006100394917.htm
http://www.arabslavetrade.com/
“The Arab slave trade typically dealt in the sale of castrated male slaves. Black boys between the age of 8 and 12 had their scrotums and penises completely amputated to prevent them from reproducing. About six of every 10 boys bled to death during the procedure, according to some sources, but the high price brought by eunuchs on the market made the practice profitable.”
Benjamin said,
“The worst mass atrocities in world history have been committed by white-majority governments, including illegal wars of aggression such as the Iraq War (wars of aggression are both illegal by US law and international law, which makes it not only a crime against humanity but also a war crime). That is particularly true in America. Even the worst racial riots in America were committed by whites (e.g., Tulsa). Also, whites in this country are more likely to commit crimes such as serial murder, mass shootings, and bombings.”
Beside being arguably false, is there some reason you are neglecting to tell who those worst mass murderers were Benjamin? They were leftists weren’t they Benjamin. Also arguably, the worst mass murderer in history is very possibly Mao, a nonwhite.
Deceit by omission is a very leftist trait.
There are more white serial killers, but there are more black mass killings. The figures are easily found on the FBI’s database. The mass killings (the criteria for which include simply killing a multitude of people) mainly are a product of gang violence; as this is so common in the black communities it is hardly news worthy while the white teen who shoots up a movie theatre is so rare it merits national headlines. It is hard to quantify which one is worse. The mass killing by blacks show more impulsiveness, while the serial killings by whites show more intricate and careful planning and cover-up. Meanwhile, the black “gangstas” who will potentially pull out a gun, point it sideways where it is difficult to balance and control, and just open fire hitting everyone around except the intended target (an opposing gang member encroaching upon their “turf”) are pretty easy to spot making them easier to avoid while, white serial killers, blend in and are “normal” in appearance. They do not wear a costume identifying them as “I am a serial killer”. Black “gangstas” want you to know exactly what they are, and wear the designated uniform (sagged down pants, oversized clothing all in their gang colors, rag, etc). Serial killers have a “type” that they prey upon which “gangstas” kill indiscriminately those who they have “beef” with innocent bystanders be damned. I would say both are menaces.
This is a genetic issue. People need to look deeper into MAOA and it’s effect on impulse control. Studies have shown variants to cause impulsive violent behavior and carries into other areas of life. One study shows a strong correlation with poor financial decisions, making certain races more likely to be high risks when loaning. The utility of MAOA is in removing certain hormones/neurotransmitters from the body (adrenaline, seratonin, epinepherine, norepinepherine, etc). When the body’s ability to do so is hampered by deficient variants, it’s more understandable why controlling impulse could become more difficult, leading to educational problems, financial problems, violence issues, paranoia and anxiety, etc.
Of course many of the current civilised Western countries have waged war in the distant past (although so have many other countries and races in the same eras) but the key difference is that these Western countries evolved and became civilised. Take the UK for example, the police are not armed as standard and it is a very safe country. Unfortunately, there are places which are becoming dangerous such as London, Birmingham, Bradford etc. Guess what these places all have in common? Yep, ethnic minorities (who are working very hard at becoming majorities). As for genocide, well after Rwanda I think it’s quite obvious that some races are a long, long way from becoming civilised.
Here’s a really simple idea
Why don’t black men simply stop committing crimes, what do you think. How about they focus on their education and future, because they do not want to. It’s easier to be lazy and blame someone else.
I can from Mexico 6 years ago. I had $176.00 dollars in my pocket and I worked my ass off. I have been pulled over by the police several times and each time I gave the officer respect and just said yes sir, even when they were rude.
I went to school and now I am a managers assistant at Home Depot and want to buy a small home for me and my girlfriend as we want to get married.
You cannot blame others for your misfortune you have to do it yourself
Not skateboarding to a store to steal beer
Tony,
Your story is the epitome of the “American Dream”. I was born here and am still working on it myself (won’t give up on hard work getting me somewhere until I die). If everyone had your kind of drive the world would be a better place. I hope you got that house with your partner and are manager soon, you deserve it. All the best of luck!
Because ONLY Black men commit crimes, correct? Because Latinos, Whites, and Asians DON’T commit crimes, right? Because there AREN’T 300,000 MORE Black men in college than in prison taking into consideration that 50 years ago a Black man voting could easily mean death, hhh? Because Black women ARE NOT becoming one of the most educated groups in America and owning businesses at 6x the rate of the average American, correct?
Here’s an idea: how about you stop relying on the media to educate you about Black people.
Do you think Africa was just this peaceful place all these thousands of years?
@Gerry
“Do you think Africa was just this peaceful place all these thousands of years?”
Do you think Europe was just this peaceful place all these thousand years, especially these past centuries (of imperialism, colonialism, slavery, genocide, wars of aggression, imperial wars, world wars, various mass atrocities, etc)?
Obviously it’s not solely poverty considering there is just as many white people in poverty as black people, yet black people commit 50 percent of murders. I buy into the violent subculture idea, because obviously the disproportionate amount of murders cannot be explained solely by income level.
…murder is not the only type of crime. Poor rural areas that are predominately White have extremely high crime rates involving child abuse, child neglect, drug use/posession/distribution, domestic abuse, ect. Poverty is linked to crime, regardless of color.
The Appalachians, or Ozarks show the white response to extreme poverty, and aside from small differences, it is the same. Poverty, especially when so many around are thriving, is one catalyst of violence and crime in general that shows the Equality of all men. Poverty and wealth both are filters through which all people are seen for who they are.
Are suggesting that poor people are more inclined to commit crime? Is your answer just to jail the poor? Poor people who I grew up with were mostly law abiding. It is the culture of acceptance of crime that is at fault, not the race or the financial situation of the perpetrator. It is a moral dilemma and has nothing to do with race or poverty. When the community starts holding the perpetrators morally accountable and stops excusing criminal behavior we will be on the way to solving the crime problem.
Yeah I grew up “poor and deprived” I never murdered anyone.
Black people in general, the vast majority in America, teach their children police are bad. A murder is a murder I don’t need to hear excuces for them. That’s pathetic.
The poverty issues were addressed what’s avoided like the plague is genetic predisposition. They can genetically be predisposed to being more athletic or have bigger dicks but is socially impossible for there to be any genetic link to intelligence or criminality.
@andrew
“The poverty issues were addressed what’s avoided like the plague is genetic predisposition.”
What alternative universe do you live in? Issues of genetics are the complete opposite of avoided. Our society obsesses over genetics. A ton of research is done about genetics. But the problem is that the science doesn’t fit your racist ideology.
if poverty is the cause of most of murders .then appalachia would be killing one another off like crazy.
@roscoe –
“if poverty is the cause of most of murders .then appalachia would be killing one another off like crazy.”
I constantly see people post comments like this. It makes me wonder. Do such people even consider doing some basic research before opinionating? Why do they think their beliefs are true, simply because they believe them?
This kind of thing has been studied by scientific researchers for decades. There is a lot of data out there. We don’t have to limit ourselves to mere speculation.
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2015/07/12/are-white-appalachians-a-special-case/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2015/08/24/on-racialization-of-crime-and-violence/
I’ve read every post you placed out here. You are devoid of knowledge and most of your points make little to no sense. It’s obvious you do not have a strong handle on debating, because you do not understand the basic requirement: facts and focus. Everyone of your points runs onto a racist tangent anytime someones disagrees with your point. The funniest part of this, nothing you stated is true. I’ve read through your points and I cannot find one single note of truth in it. Good luck with your continued attack on whites as the devils they aren’t.
Blacks commit a higher percentage of crimes than Whites
@bonniewheeler –
“Blacks commit a higher percentage of crimes than Whites”
That is factually incorrect. It depends on the crime. Some categories of crime are committed more by whites: child abuse, drug dealing, carrying illegal guns, etc.
Blacks rape, rob and kill far more white people than the reverse. That is one of the reasons why police officers police officers kill so many black males. They are the criminals committing the most serious crimes,
You are a complete a** don’t talk about the past history of how a country was settled when the whole world was doing the same thing and if you want to talk about genocide go to Africa and look how many black people kill black people over there don’t hear me all this b******* about how blacks and singled out the only single doll because it can get most of the crimes in the most violent race on the planet what are you stupid
Benjamin David Steele you are as clueless as our Anti-American pro-Muslim coward and chief Obama. My niece was sitting in her living room and was shot by one of these POS BLACK gang member chasing another POS BLACK gang member running by her house. Theses black criminal’s making our cities ****ing cesspools with drugs, prostitution and killing anyone in their way. Don’t spin it …. when Blacks kill Blacks no media, Blacks kill Whites no media. Every time the Black racist leaders/ groups (Black Life’s Matter} hear about a Black killed by a White …. O my god the poor black man was shot leaving bible study. All law abiding citizen’s life’s matters. But the Black, White or Brown repeating Felon low life gang member and or Criminal’s HELL no their life’s don’t matter at all.
FactCheck is a site designed to mitigate statistics that reflect negatively on Left-Wing POVs, they spin as they go through verbal/logical gymnastics.
Interesting about the colonization and genocide. Where were the black American colonies as I never heard of any.
As for arrests being racist, the statistics show that White-on-Black crime is low by any measure and higher for Black-on-White Crime and the Black crime rate is many times that of whites, thus more arrests and more blacks in prizon as a percentage of population. But the crime rates versus incarcerations are very close.
As Willy Sutton said he robbed banks because that’s where the money is, the cops are arresting blacks because that’s where the crime is. We are talking about poor blacks deserving protection as much as wealthier whites.
And if you think it’s not political, ask why the president was so ouotraged over Ferguson (a just shooting per HIS FBI & Justice Department) while the Feds have hardly said a word when the president’s buddy Raum Emanuel is ensnared in a cover-up of an apparent unjustified shooting.
Racism is the convenient scapegoat.
Yeah, genocide and murder isn’t part of the history of the far east, Asia, Africa or South America. Never.
Blacks in America are in a tight spot. We are experiencing the end of european racial domination. Whites are being replaced by Asians and Hispanics. The California legislature is dominated by hispanic lawmakers. There are not enough Republicans in this state for a hand of bridge. Those new law makers are interested in pushing for their own people; black have no power and no place at the table in this new world. They can cry about slavery, but none of the new ruling class is going to give a darn. They truly are going to be at the back of the bus again.
This is the last hurrah for african-americans.
lie, first mexicans need to be taken out of the white cat. then they need to tell the truth about gun deaths, most blacks are killing someboy else,most whites are commiting suicide,and in every country where they have stolen peoples guns the suicides just switch to a different method..violent crime is at least 50% black, again they add hispanics to the ”white” and you are trying to throw in all crime,, when you take violent crime its overwhelmingly black.. killing 35 million blacks would let this country soar forward not to mention saving trillions in welfare..
If you are poor in America, then the reason is in the mirror. So I could care less if the guy who murdered my neighbor was poor and it is not material to the fact. How many murders come from a house with a father. How many violent crimes are committed from what group. But the King has no cloths , and BLM. Right
If a white person commits a crime it’s because “o f*** white people” but if a black person commits a crime it’s “Institutional racism, slavery, f*** white people”
I’m seeing a trend of racism from these people unwilling to face the MAJOR problem of African American crime.
>However, the implication that somebody commits murder JUST BECAUSE of the colour of his/her skin is both deeply offensive and stupid
i failed to see that implication in the article, but OTOH i think it’s stupid to say poverty alone makes you kill another human being. that’s extremely stupid idea.
So, if your poor, its ok to have bad judgement, make immoral decisions? How does one come up with the statement inner city residents deprived of services when all services (welfare) are located in inner cities. Ie.. soup kitchens, shelters, boarding places, medicaid, food stamps etc…
Now you go 30 miles out rural. Run down trailers, 40 -50+ year old homes in disrepair, alot not even keeping all the utilities on 12 months out of the year. But you can pull into store parking lots and not be approached by 5 people (or more) asking for money. At night you not only can safely walk the streets, you could literally sleep in them (if it was not against the law& enforced).
You can paint it up any way you want but when I was young (and poor), in the countryside, we were, and still are good people. If you were hungry, you fished, hunted. And before that remark leaves your mouth, we didn’t have foodstamps and if we had they would not have been traded for drugs!
People are tired of this pc crap, if its an apple, call it an apple!
The homicide rate for Africa is far higher than any other continent although poverty may be a result of this as much as a cause. Crime & a lack of a father also seem correlated.
I do actually think its sub culture and when that changes I think you will see a huge drop in the crime rate amongst Blacks, its literally the only factor that truly explains it, as apart from that we are all exactly the same mammal.
During WWII, the American Japanese were rounded up and sent to camps, robbed of their homes and belongings and treated like criminals.
Asians are now out-performing all other American races in every positive measure. School test scores, salaries and so on. (I’m aware that I’m lumping Japanese in with Chinese, Korean, etc.)
They are not killing each other in Japanese ghettos and rioting because they were horribly abused at the hand of the US Gov’t. They grow. They prosper.
What uninformed and naive comments. Yes, Western Cultures did conquered many countries, but so did Middle East and Asian countries troughout history try and conquer Western counties. Genghis Khan, the Moors in Spain. So let’s be real. History is about conquering other cultures. Whites do not have a monopoly, they just did it better.
Nobody said that someone is more likely to commit murder based on their skin color I don’t believe. They said people of a certain skin color commit a hugely disproportionate number of murders each year. If instead of murders, let’s say that 13% of the population routinely got 50% of the lollipops each year in America, causing the other 87% to fight over the less than 50% of the ones remaining. People would be up
In arms demanding that things be more in line with their numbers. But you wouldn’t say the numbers are biased.
You are using the wrong base. Blacks may compose 14% of the population, which means black males are about 7%, and the population involved in homicide are those males between 15 and 30 years old, a much smaller percentage. Maybe 2 or 3% (you do the math) of the population are responsible for 50% of the homicides in this country.
You compare this groups with what the FBI defines as whites. The FBI description was developed in the 1930s and has not been updated since.
All murders committed by Hispanics are classified as white. Don’t believe me? Check the ucr definitions on the FBI site.
Cops kill more black young men because this is the group that is the most violent. Control for race and America has one of the lowest murder rates in the world.
There was once a saying in the old East End that if you treat a man like a dog don’t be too surprised when he bites your ankle. Why get into statistics when simple emotional intelligence shouts the reason.
Higher poverty rates do NOT account for violent crimes rates
THERE ARE MORE WHITES IN POVERTY THAN BLACKS
STOP LOOKING FOR YOUR INVISIBLE ELF THAT WE ALL KNOW DOESNT EXIST
That’s the biggest load of crap I’ve heard.
1. Poverty is the number one cause that pushes people into crimes.
2. White people in poor neighbourhoods commit just as much crimes as blacks, and black people in well off areas commit no crimes.
Keo, the two points you list don’t actually contradict the fact-check conclusion. It is possible for crime to be 100% caused by poverty and the police to be completely unbiased, yet still this could result in blacks being killed by police at a disproportionate rate.
And where did your statistic’s here come from? Or did you make this up? Give us some credible statistic to support your absurd claim.
That’s exactly why Whites commit most of the violent crime in America. I don’t know why you people can’t see that, and it clearly says it at the bottom of EVERY crime table that the UCR puts out. Check it yourself
There are nore whites in poverty than Blacks because there are more whites in the U.S. than Blacks. When you logistically regress for the percentage populations, Blacks experience a higher rate of poverty than Whites. Do you have any research that states that crime is NOT linked to poverty?
Since most of you people seem to be concerned with black on black crime…thanks! But who does that leave to be advocates for the 84 percent of white victims were killed by white offenders? Don’t they deserve your perturbation and ire for the perpetrators?
We tend to be cynical about crime — even when there’s no direct evidence in front of us — that it’s getting worse. Over the years, polls have consistently shown that most Americans think crime in general is getting worse, but feel perfectly safe in their own neighborhoods. Polls also continue to show that a solid majority of Americans think crime is getting worse, even though the crime rate has been in a 20-year free fall
At least 70 departments scattered from Connecticut to California arrested black people at a rate 10 times higher than people who are not black, USA TODAY found. Do you think this might have something to do with the arrest which masks crime stats?
The national victim survey (administered by the Bureau of Census) annually demonstrates that Black people are overwhelming the perpetrator of violent crimes.
It is true that whites account for the vast major of murders where the victim is white. The chances of being a white homicide victim is minuscule. Not the case for Black men.
The CDC tells us that the leading cause of death of young Black men and boys is homicide; at the hands of another Black male.
Its so refreshing to see that someone has a real handle on this. So many articles and reports are intentionally misleading because they don’t even TOUCH on INTRAracial crime. You would think that Blacks were the one killing Whites 85% of the time,,,,,, period, but its really just where homicide overlaps by race(which is only 15% of the time), and the media focuses intensely on that set of figures for the sensationalism that its generating in this thread right now.
Adolf Hitler was white! He killed 6 million whites and blacks!? Correct!?
I don’t know where people keep finding these “black people in Europe in 1939-45. I lived in poland for 8 years, I once fell asleep on a bus an a black guy woke me up so i didnt miss my stop talking to me in polish. MY MIND WAS BLOWN, it was the only black guy i have seen in poland in Bialystok, from 1985-1993 soooooo…….
Dont forget to mention non-violent “white collar” crime, which I can only imagine is predominantly commited by white males in this country so…there you go….crime is crime, some people will be criminals no matter how rich or poor they are! Unfortunately crime among the poor is more violent also no matter if you are black or white.
Actually, blacks commit a disproportionate amount of white collar crime as well as serial killings. Look it up.
Even if you consider poverty, the poverty rates for two parent, married households is within a few points for blacks as it is for whites, less than 10% in both populations in 2012, the last year for which data is available. But blacks have far more single, female parent situations than whites. In family structures where single females are head of household, the poverty rate is about 48%. So this too likely comes down to individual choice and probably is indicative of a sub-culture that tolerates single women rearing out of wedlock children alone. Again, personal choice often has long-lasting ramifications, especially in the overall outcomes of children.
Oh, I see. So, this is all a ginned up political play by Obama, Sharpton, and Holder. That’s what I suspected. It’s nice to see real world data confirm my suspicions.
Nice article. I often wonder what’ s going on. For example what portion of these violent crimes are gang related and whether those are analyzed differently.
“black people tend to offend more because they tend to be more disadvantaged”; that’s exactly backwards. Black people tend to be more disadvantaged because they offend more. They don’t commit crime because they’re poor, they’re poor because they commit crimes. Stop making excuses for freely chosen criminality.
Using Eric Holder’s statistics on this issue is the same as asking John Gruber about Obamacare – No federal government stats can be trusted past 2008 and we all know it!
Keep in mind that those statistics are reported crimes.If you take into account that there are a lot of crimes that happen in the streets that people don’t even report to police because of the fear of being labeled a snitch, the numbers have to be at least a few percentage points higher, if not more. I live in Baltimore and I see crimes happen all the time that go unreported.
Ed if you see crimes happen everyday that go unreported, then you are as guilty as the person who is committing them. You should be reporting them if YOU see them and YOU know they are going to go unreported. Your argument proves nothing.
Patrick – Verifiable statistical data supporting the information you presented was omitted. When you make claims that there is “official police-recorded data” provide a reference. Statistics requires analysis of data and a understanding of the results for accurate communication of the findings. Your article lacks supporting evidence for a subjective premise.
Evidence that “the police are racist…” That’s just such a generalization that you could never prove. That’s like saying evidence that “blacks are criminals.” The job of police is not to arrest people as proportionately to our population as possible: “No Jim, let that murderer go, arrest this white guy instead, we’ve already met our Latino quota…” The job of police is to arrest people who commit crimes and in doing so to keep us safe. We need to stop shaming them for putting their lives on the line for us. The reality is, when you’re in trouble, who are you gonna call?
I have been robbed three time in the two years, three times by African American Males
Maybe they do. But there are reasons for everything. Watched Ross Kemp on American gangs. When he spoke to them, they weren’t bigging up their lifestyle, didn’t look like they wanted to be in that situation at all. America itself is to blame for the mess it’s in.
It is sad that our youth lack identity of their own & try to emulate those people when they really don’t want to be like that in the first place. Rap artists mainly celebrate leaving dark times to be successful musicians. Our kids haven’t got a clue.
There’s a lot of truth being spoken here and a lot of denial; mostly on the part of blacks who are probably good people not justifying violence but interested in rightfully defending their race. That’s understandable. However, while it is easy to support the arguments that blacks do commit most of the violence with stats based on proportion of the population leading them to get arrested more often and receiving more “attention” from the cops (not saying many cops don’t have violence tendencies), it is much less clearer about how poverty is an indicator of violent behavior.
Some notable posts did point out, for example, how chicago broken down by race still shows a huge proponderance of crime committed by blacks versus whites and others (assuming equal economic level in general) and another post discusses stats of single-mother black families in abundance affecting outcomes of children and eventually leading to crime and still another post talks about the influence of rap music on black culture leading to discontent and violence. Almost every time I listen to any black music or comedian for that matter, I have noticed its about race and the implications are to get back at whitey. Needless to say I don’t buy that kind of music.
Unfortunately for those blacks who are indeed decent, and there are certainly many, it is tough for them to face the stats and to be objective. There are problems with the black community that, whether from genetics, environment or whatever, must be faced and its not all about whitey (some of us are hard working poor and not everyone is holding our doors). To anyone who denies genetics is part of this merely needs to do a little health history for predisposition to diseases where association with race definitely can be proven. Genetics is no doubt a factor in other aspects of our lives. People like Obama, Holder, Jackson and Sharpton are proponents who unfairly blame whitey at every turn but have no answer for people like blacks like Ben Carson who outshine them by miles!
Whitey has, in fact, been behind much of the improvement of blacks in this country so to lump us all together denies how slavery was ended by Lincoln and civil rights was started by Johnson with the Great Society and supported by many whites and up to today there are so many examples of opportunities for not just blacks but all Americans including the recent mal-contents, muslims (hope we can all survive). I believe it just takes working together always with respect for each other and not flying off the handle about the latest wrong done to you or to me. That working together for this generation of blacks seems to be a growing problem, whether it comes from genetics, environment or whatever. We all have and will continue to eat crow unless you are so wealthy you don’t worry about posts like this and someone reads and writes your posts for you.
I will say as a parting comment that those who think black crime happens just among the poor, take a look at the crime stats in the nfl, nba, mlb, and so on (by proportion okay) and you will see how its blacks committing most of the violent crime and these athletes aren’t poor by any stretch of the mind. You can argue that the hood is not yet wiped clean from the backgrounds of many of these rich sports black criminals but its just blaming the same old poverty and of course whitey who put all blacks down. It is interesting to also look at crime stats associated with the differences in IQ scores correlated with the rise of socioeconomic status. I believe poverty does have its influences but so does education, health care and having a job (and holding one) as a ticket to the better life. I paid my McDonald’s dues on the way to a better job and it was tough. Perhaps here is where some blacks may lose it. To them I would say eat your share of crow and one day you will be eating a fine steak.
Finally there is a need for more studies of violent crime amongst the rich by proportion in this country to see those stats. It will take hard work for all to improve things in this country but blacks are in an extremely difficult position these days and must face reality for more obviously glaring problems as mentioned, like single mother families shouldering the burden of raising fatherless children and also being hit with the negative influences of foolish politicians and negative hateful rap music throwing the race care any chance they can to feed off their own people!
I am both shocked and appalled that people like you even exist…
1. Black people are NOT genetically predisposed to criminal behavior. How do I know? I am Black, not a criminal, and have studied people and health. If Blacks were genetically predisposed to be criminals 1. there would be no Whites left on the planet & 2. that still would not explain the millions who have died by the hands of White Europeans
2. Lincoln did not give a damn about slaves. He STATED that he was not going to meddle in slavery. Emancipation did not become an issue until well after there was going to be a Civil War. Johnson did NOT start the civil rights movement. It started long before him. Before you try to tell me about the minority of Whites who helped Blacks go look into the majority who caused multi-generational problems for Blacks. This didn’t just happen in the U.S. This happened in most places where there was European invasion and colonial rule. Look at South Africa. India. The Caribbean. The list can go on and on and on. No, I will not clap because someone attempted to fix a problem that they created in the first place.
3. Rap music is a reflection of culture not the cause of crime.
I don’t think he was saying anything about genetics or predisposition to criminality. What I took from what he was saying is that we are all human and we all need to work together he actually gave praise to Ben Carson who is an African American. I believe in my heart of hearts that the Ancient Egyptians were black and if this legacy can be restored to the black people this would help them very much in healing over past wrong doings by white. Because the Egyptians had white slaves.
There is an elephant in the room, and only one person ventured to touch on it: children and youth are deeply influenced by violent images, culture and music. There are multiple generations growing up without benefit of healthy father figures, lacking in basic self-esteem, vastly undereducated and in need of healthy, proper outlets. These young people need to be properly schooled, taught vocational skills and need healthy examples of adults around them or they will get caught up in violent crimes. To turn this around, we need to agree on these basics things and do massive outreach. Letting people who have been let down again and again by the system to try to solve this themselves is just not going to cut it. It takes a tribe to raise the child. There needs to be think-tanks and action-oriented committees with fresh, new bold approaches. Not the same old, tired liberal hand-wringing followed by tossing cash in their general direction.
Close. The real issue is the low income black population are having children so they can get $ from the taxpayers. Kids are being raised In Single family homes with 7 kids and they are kicked out on the street. No father. Taught this is the way to beat the system.
Take away the $ and people will earn a living and self respect.
The majority of people who are currently on welfare today are White.
The ‘tough’ rap culture is not helping the black community either. Blacks are over represented in this industry and it is the only genre of music where people are preceived successful if their trousers are half way down their legs,using profanities and acting threatening. With lyrics about unlawfully acquired wealth, violence, degrading attitudes to women and disrespect and contempt to the police. While there should be no excuses at this point why u staggeringly high numbers of young black men end up in prison, all this information must be used to attempt changing the status quo. This conversation needs to continue without the black community hiding behind the word ‘racism’ to avoid confronting the truth.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. When it’s all said and done it’s like this, when Whites stop every last one in their race from committing any types of crime, getting any type of government welfare assistance, keeping every last one of their own out of jail/prisons, and every last one of their women from having out of wedlock children and being single mothers, and the list goes on, then and only then talk about the Black wrongs in our communities. And for the dummies saying the past doesn’t affect the future, well hundreds of years of slavery and jim crow laws in America definitely hasn’t had an effect on Blacks right? After all Whites weren’t subjected to the same effects, but many here are still poor and can’t get it together, but all Blacks are supposed to get it together. Do something about your own people, (especially White males with all of their privileges), and help them get it together before telling Blacks how we don’t. There’s no excuse for a White male to be broke, poor and pathetic in America, but yet there are plenty. I of course, do understand that life happens to us all, but racist Whites can’t understand anything but what the Blacks are doing wrong, and not their own people. Maybe you all should get a Jessie or Al to help with the ill’s of your own race. My blinders have been off a long time to your foolishness. So it’s time for yours to come off as well to your own damn problems.
Couldn’t have said it better, Michelle Cunningham. You make great points.
There are numerous problems within society, regardless of race. All of the ills supposedly pressed upon Black youth by the likes of hiphop/rap music affects more than just Black people. Lots of children, from many different backgrounds are affected by that and enjoy listening to that. Likewise, the same is true of our youth when it comes to violence and promiscuity in the media, video games, etc. All of our children are falling by the wayside. Period. It’s honestly indisputable at this point.
Regarding the Black community specifically, it’s hard to understand the mindset ingrained inside of us from birth when one doesn’t have to live through it – the fact that we are wary and careful of others by necessity (and too often proven needed REGARDLESS of how kind or respectful we are) and usually in response to being treated worse than others.
The fact that even as 5 or 6 year olds, we’re known to be ugly (watch the “doll test” on youtube) in the minds of others and eventually, in our own minds. The fact that we can’t even mind our own business without people assuming we’re doing wrong (watch “ABC 20/20 What Would You Do Vandals Racism In America Pt. 2” on youtube and the article called, “‘It’s not illegal to be black’: Cops complain online about white people getting ‘freaked out’ by their black neighbors and wasting police time with 911 calls”). The fact that we aren’t considered for jobs if our names don’t sound right or we identify our ethnicity (search for the article, “The new threat: Racism without Racists” by CNN and watch the video).
Yes, but we’re all imagining it. Right?
Or worst yet, the treatment we receive is “justified!”?
Integration was honestly one of the worst things to happen to us (not saying that segregation was good, but only that forced integration was bad). It forced us into a society in which we’re still not considered equal, are still at a disadvantage, are still, in the end, segregated economically and racially (since it’s true, as another poster mentioned, that Hispanics and the like are grouped with Whites) and looked down upon. And furthermore, those grouped with Whites don’t want anything to do with Black people either; and foreign Black people want separation from Black Americans as well.
So we, as Black Americans, being without a country of racial majority to call our own, would have to do the best with what we have, needing a good portion of our community to stand up and actively work toward another Black Wallstreet to recover (thankfully, there are groups that are doing this now); we’d have to be a country within a country, an economy within an economy, a source of strength for our children to pull from: “Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.” (Pro 22:6)
We’d need to have something of our own and learn the true meaning of the quote “we do business with everyone but are not friends with anyone” which has always been best said as “be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers” (2 Cor 6:14). We must realize the importance of being a “peculiar people” and embrace it because striving for acceptance in a world that doesn’t want us will never do us any good.
FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?
November 27, 2014 30 CommentsBy Patrick Worrall
1933 367 4 139
The claim
“It’s important to note that black men commit nearly half of all murders in this country, which is astounding when you take into consideration the fact that they only make up 12-13 per cent of the population
Everyone knows blacks commit more crime than whites. We’re just not allowed to say it because it’s racist.
You’re all racist.
No wonder that there are only 13% black people in America. If there were more than 50% of black population I am afraid America would turn to Africa where people would be hackled to death and burned to ashes as is the case in present day African countries like Kenya.
The truth of the matter is whites are the only non-racist race in the whole world because they are the most civilized and only minority of them are bad. Example..There is black president in America… and Oprah is the most powerful woman…. Whereas in present day Kenya people are hackled to death and burned to ashes just because they are from different tribe……… I can go on and on… but everyone knows what the truth is.
Goodness! A world where people are burned and hacked to death? Just add castration and hanging and we have ourselves a good ol’ American lynching; Picnic lunch not included…
Whites stepped on everyone else to get to the top. You keep mentioning Africa as if tens of thousanda of people didn’t die due to colonialism at the hands of Whites. You look to East Africa but forget South Africa where apartheid was still legal less than 30 years ago. Whites are NOT the most civilized. That’s not possible. If you need help understanding why, look to the U.S., the 54 countries in Africa, South America, the Caribbean, Australia, and India.
Hands up don’t shoot. Hands to yourself wont’ shoot.
I don’t care if your rich or poor or aren’t smart enough to finish your education. Everyone is born with a sense of right and wrong and we fine tune this as we age. But by the time we have reached our teen years we should all know that robbery, rape, murder and assault are all the wrong things to be injecting into society. If that is not understood by then we have a serious problem. Too many baby daddy’s are roaming free, not helping the baby momma’s because they are too busy making more babies and were never taught this is not acceptable in society. When this is all they are subject to children will learn by example and it becomes a never ending cycle. Certain communities need to wake up and get with the program or things will never change
According to an estimate I read on Wiki, 90.5% of homicides are committed by men when men make up some 50% of the population. Men, then, are vastly more homicidal thantheeir numbers should justify. How many would argue that men are inherently, by nature, homicidal? Given the reasoning of some on this post, more than a few; crime is far complex than mere demographics can account for.
Thats because women, who are more likely than men to kill their own children, have seen their crimes rebranded as “infanticide” or can claim “battered wife syndrome” after killing their parnters. In reality women are just as violent as men.
“It’s important to note that black men commit nearly half of all murders in this country, which is astounding when you take into consideration the fact that they only make up 12-13 per cent of the population.”
This is, at the least, a poorly structured sentence. As it is, it suggests that young black men are 12-13 percent of the population.
You have to also realize the government considers Mexican mestizos to be white. That serves to increase the amount of white crime. Non-Hispanic whites comprise roughly 62% of the population of the US.
Interesting comments. I do have one request though that I think would add to the comments. if people would say if they are black or white. I think that would help as far as getting an idea as to what people are thinking based on their own experiences and backgrounds. I am wondering when I read a comment If the person is just wondering what it may be like or if they are prejudice etc. it would help to know.
Blacks embarrass themselves through bad behavior. Not all blacks, but a large enough group to be statistically significant. Facts are facts, blacks commit 3 times more violent crimes and up to 6 times more murders.
It’s not because they are poor, because I am white and I used to be so poor that we didn’t get to eat everyday. My dad was an alcoholic that drank away the majority of the money and my mom spent her time sleeping around. I was sexually abused and then told to “suck it up.” I was poor and had bad parents…and I haven’t murdered, stole, raped, or assaulted others.
Being poor is an excuse, but it is based on the acceptance of bad behavior. I’ve lived in South Carolina and Kansas in extremely depressed areas. In similar situations, with the only difference being the percentage of blacks, the crime rate and racism were drastically different. Crime was almost non-existent in the white community, which was slightly poorer.
And furthermore, why do blacks riot more often? Why do the riots always end up in looting? It is because crime is generally accepted as more palatable in black communities. My personal belief, based on my opinion so it is useless to argue with an opinion, is that crime is more acceptable because we have conditioned blacks to become wards of the state. When they become dependent on the government income, they slowly but surely become entitled. And entitlement makes people feel as though what they want should be theirs…and over time it becomes ok to act out on that feeling.
Obviously I have generalized an entire race…which is never an accurate portrayal. There are many fine black people that work hard and are as accomplished as anyone else. But as a people, I wish that blacks that are hard-working and accomplished would stop allowing “thugs” to represent your race. How about internal accountability? When blacks expect more of themselves and stop accepting poor behavior, they will actually have a chance at equality.
“Homicide is a broader category than “murder” but let’s not split hairs.”
Except there is a difference between the two. Homicide is the killing of one person by another. Murder is a form of criminal homicide, where the perpetrator intended to kill the other person. Homicides are criminal, excusable, or justifiable. A criminal homicide is unjustifiable, with consequences being severe. An excusable or justifiable homicide is one without criminal intent to kill someone. Examples of excusable or justifiable homicide would be someone killing someone else as a means of self defense, or defending another person, or law enforcement who kills someone in the line of duty. Why would you not differentiate between someone who killed another person to stop a rape of a child (it has happened) and someone who killed because they didn’t like the victim?
Let’s not forget all of those wrongfully convicted and freed after years Black males, while many died for the crime they didn’t commit while in prison. I had a nice car and the cop swore I stole it. A survey by a white racist can’t be trusted. They have by racists white law killed or put innocent people of color in jail. In 1871 Congress also passed the Ku Klux Klan Act, which allowed the government to act against terrorist organizations. So why haven’t the kkk, their families and supporter been all destroyed? Some say oh this is their heritage. Oh, I guess Americans that fight with isis and fly their flag is heritage too. The treasonous traitors fly that toilet paper confederate flag, they fought against our country and lost. Looser for life. A terrorist is a terrorist. One foolish person told me the kkk is a political organization, well the USA also considers Hezbollah’s political part as terrorist. We are sent around the world to kill terrorists, and we haven’t destroyed ours yet. RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
Patrick Worrall your a piece s*** you and your contributors.
Are there any statistics, or any information, about rate of crime in poor White areas like in the Appalachia mountains where the Whites are poorer than most Blacks?
There are areas of White poverty. My guess is that because these economically poor Whites don’t commit as much crime as economically poor Blacks, there are no stats.
I live in a town that is about 60% Hispanic and 40% White, and a few Blacks, Asians, and Eastern Indians. The crime rate is almost equal between the Hispanics and Whites. The majority of people in this town are economically disadvantaged. So I think poverty and lack of education plays a role.
Although there is a small college in the town and the Black sports players cause a lot of problems, like theft and assault.
All of us “racist” white folk need to vote for Ben Carson. He never made any excuses for getting ahead despite his color or being raised in poverty by a single mother. He is a great role model, my lily white son idolizes him and wants to be a neurosurgeon too. Let’s stop labeling ourselves as anything but humans that should treat others with respect and love. If you live in the U.S. be part of the solution and don’t give in to victim mentality by labeling yourself into a disadvantaged group. I’d like to see some stats comparing black immigrants from war torn African countries with those that blacks that have been here much longer. Which group had it more difficult and which is doing better? My guess is those more recent arrivals had it worse and are doing better, because of their perspective that they have much more opportunity here and yet they would experience the same racism as their counterparts.
Endless print about the negativity of black behavior on the net tells me everything I need to know about them as a culture.
@Dejan Vakuv
“No wonder that there are only 13% black people in America. If there were more than 50% of black population I am afraid America would turn to Africa where people would be hackled to death and burned to ashes as is the case in present day African countries like Kenya.”
We actually don’t know how many white people kill and get away with it. As long as it is considered self-defense, it isn’t included in murder stats. For example, no data is kept on how many people police kill. Also, how many people did white Americans kill during the Native American genocide, slavery, Jim Crow, drug wars, illegal and unconstitutional wars of aggression. and through support of authoritarian regimes?
All killings should be recorded and compared. Just because it is state-sanctioned violence doesn’t mean it is any less horrific and any more moral. Every violent state in history always legally justified its violence.
@Harold
“Certain communities need to wake up and get with the program or things will never change”
Our entire society needs to wake up to systemic and institutional prejudices and privileges, most especially racism but also that of class. Collective problems that have existed in an entire society for centuries can’t be solved by the victimized individuals and communities. It requires a change in the society itself, but first people have to be willing to take responsibility for the problems they are complicit in.
@James33035
“Blacks embarrass themselves through bad behavior.”
In that case, American whites have embarassed themselves before the entire human race. Consider the systemic and institutional racism, along with a history of slavery and genocide. You embarass yourself by seeking to justify such horrific and inexcusable acts.
@Will
“Except there is a difference between the two. Homicide is the killing of one person by another. Murder is a form of criminal homicide, where the perpetrator intended to kill the other person. Homicides are criminal, excusable, or justifiable.”
But the distinction between the two is vague and subjective. What a jury determines, for example, is self-defense can at times defy all common sense. This is particularly the case when two separate races are involved. The data shows that self-defense is disproportionately seen as more justifiable when a white kills a black than when the other way around. Isn’t that curious?
@e.g.g.
“Are there any statistics, or any information, about rate of crime in poor White areas like in the Appalachia mountains where the Whites are poorer than most Blacks?
“There are areas of White poverty. My guess is that because these economically poor Whites don’t commit as much crime as economically poor Blacks, there are no stats.”
Of course, there is data on all American communities. Why do you ignorantly assert your beliefs when you could have simply looked up the stats?
When controlled for confounding factors such as poverty, the disparities in many social problems tend to disappear. But there is also the systemic and institutional racism that is endemic to all of American society. That plays a part as well, and there is no way to control for that confounding factor.
@Charles
“All of us “racist” white folk need to vote for Ben Carson. He never made any excuses for getting ahead despite his color or being raised in poverty by a single mother.”
But why are people like you always making excuses for your racism? You can’t even admit to the obvious. Take those square quotes away and be honest about it.
@Larry Miller
“Endless print about the negativity of black behavior on the net tells me everything I need to know about them as a culture.”
Endless print about the negativity of white (commenters, cops, politicians, pundits, etc) behavior on the net tells me everything I need to know about them as a culture.
You say “systemic and institutionalized racism” a lot but offer nothing of value to back that generalization up. It’s in most of your replies as if it can just wave away valid points.
@Nick
“You say “systemic and institutionalized racism” a lot but offer nothing of value to back that generalization up. It’s in most of your replies as if it can just wave away valid points.”
Those are just words that describe well the reality.
Racial biases are literally a part of the entire social system of our society, including within institutions themselves. I could say it is endemic and structural. I could say it is wide-ranging and deep-rooted.
I could say lots of things. The words don’t matter. What matters is the knowledge that those words represent.
There has been decades of research and thousands of studies about this topic. You can find this info in numerous peer-reviewed papers, dissertations, books, online articles, etc. The knowledge isn’t hard to find, if you want to find it.
The question is why have you chosen willful ignorance. I’ve wondered about that for years.
I don’t mind informed disagreement, but that isn’t what people like you are offering. All you can say is that I’m ignorant of that knowledge therefore it doesn’t exist. Then you act like you won the debate. It’s juvenile.
If you take the time to actually look at the data and offer an intelligent comment, I promise I’ll respond to you. Until then, your comment is just so much noise.
I’m constantly shocked by how uninformed and misinformed are so many Americans. Maybe I should be used to it by now, but I don’t think I’ll ever get used to it.
There is so much data out there and so many high quality books analyzing that data. I realize that the US education system and MSM have too often failed in getting this info to the public and helping them to understand it. Even so, Americans have to take responsibility for themselves. No one is forcing them into a state of ignorance. It’s a choice, even if only by default.
For those who rather have eye-opening truth than comforting lies, here is a useful reading list (many more could be added):
The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness
by Michelle Alexander
Racism without Racists: Color-Blind Racism and the Persistance of Racial Inequalit in America
by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva
More than Just Race: Being Black and Poor in the Inner City
by William Julius Wilson
Worse Than Slavery
by David M. Oshinsky
Sundown Towns: A Hidden Dimension of American Racism
James W. Loewen
Slavery by another Name: the Re-enslavement of Black Americans from the Civll War to World War II
by Douglas A. Blackmon
Locked Out: Felon Disenfranchisement and American Democracy
by Jeff Manza and Christopher Uggen
Who Are the Criminals?: The Politics of Crime Policy from the Age of Roosevelt to the Age of Reagan
by John Hagan
Imprisoning Communities: How Mass Incarceration Makes Disadvantaged Neighborhoods Worse
by Todd R. Clear
The Many Colors of Crime
by John Hagan
Race, Incarceration, and American Values
by Glenn C. Loury
Punishing Race: A Continuing American Dilemma
by Michael Tonry
Marked: Race, Crime, and Finding Work in an Era of Mass Incarceration
by Devah Pager
Invisible Punishment: The Collateral Consequences of Mass Imprisonment
by Marc Mauer and Meda Chesney-Lind
Crime Is Not the Problem: Lethal Violence in America
by Franklin E. Zimring and Gordon Hawkins
The Condemnation of Blackness: Race, Crime, and the Making of Modern Urban America
by Khalil Gibran Muhammad
Daedalus 140:2 (Spring 2011) – Race, Inequality & Culture, Vol. 2
Unequal Under Law: Race in the War on Drugs
by Doris Marie Provine
Race to Incarcerate
by Marc Mauer
Doing Time on the Outside: Incarceration and Family Life in Urban America
by Donald Braman
When Prisoners Come Home: Parole and Prisoner Reentry
by Joan Petersilia
Thinking About Crime: Sense and Sensibility in American Penal Culture
by Michael Tonry
Making Crime Pay: Law and Order in Contemporary American Politics
by Katherine Beckett
Banished: The New Social Control in Urban America
by Katherine Beckett and Steve Herbert
The Culture of Punishment
by Michelle Brown
Harsh Justice: Criminal Punishment and the Widening Divide between America and Europe
by James Q. Whitman
The Perils of Federalism: Race, Poverty, and the Politics of Crime Control
by Lisa L. Miller
The Politics of Imprisonment: How the Democratic Process Shapes the Way America Punishes Offenders
by Vanessa Barker
American Homicide
by Randolph Roth
Disciplining the Poor: Neoliberal Paternalism and the Persistent Power of Race
by Joe Soss, Richard C. Fording and Sanford F. Schram
Punishing the Poor: The Neoliberal Government of Social Insecurity
by Loic Wacquant
The Anatomy of Racial Inequality
by Glenn C. Loury
Stuck in Place: Urban Neighborhoods and the End of Progress Toward Racial Equality
by Patrick Sharkey
Off the Books: The Underground Economy of the Urban Poor
by Sudhir Alladi Venkatesh
Punished: Policing the Lives of Black and Latino Boys
by Victor M. Rios
Ghosts of Jim Crow: Ending Racism in Post-Racial America
by F. Michael Higginbotham
Daedalus 139:3 (Summer 2010) – On Mass Incarceration
The Color of Wealth: The Story Behind the U.S. Racial Wealth Divide
by Barbara J. Robles, Betsy Leondar-Wright, Rose M. Brewer, Rebecca Adamson and Meizhu Lui
When Affirmative Action Was White: An Untold Story of Racial Inequality in the Twentieth-Century
by Ira Katznelson
The Segreated Origins of Social Security: African Americans and the Welfare State
by Mary Poole
Unequal Childhoods: Class, Race, and Family Life
by Annette Lareau
The Moynihan Report Revisited: Lessons and Reflections after Four Decades
by Douglas S. Massey and Robert J. Sampson
The Sociology of Discrimination: Racial Discrimination in Employment, Housing, Credit, and Consumer Markets
by Devah Pager and Hana Shepherd
Whistling Vivaldi: How Stereotypes Affect Us and What We Can Do About It
by Claude M. Steele
Race and Reality: What Everyone Should Know About Our Biological Diversity
by Guy P. Harrison
Genetics and the Unsettled Past: The Collision of DNA, Race, and History
by Keith Wailoo, Alondra Nelson and Catherine Lee
Race Decoded: The Genomic Fight for Social Justice
by Catherine Bliss
Fatal Invention: How Science, Politics, and Big Business Re-create Race in the Twenty-First Century
by Dorothy Roberts
The Emperor’s New Clothes: Biological Theories of Race at the New Millennium
by Joseph L. Graves Jr.
Race?: Debunking a Scientific Myth
by Ian Tattersall and Rob DeSalle
Racecraft: The Soul of Inequality in Ameican Life
by Barbara J. Fields and Karen Fields
White Out: The Continuing Significance of Racism
by Ashley W. Doane and Eduardo Bonilla-Silva
State of White Supremacy: Racism, Governance, and the United States
Moon-Kie Jung, Joao Costa Vargas and Eduardo Bonilla-Silva
Brainwashed: Challenging the Myth of Black Inferiority
by Tom Burrell
What Is Intelligence?
by James R. Flynn
Intelligence and How to Get it: Why Schools and Cultures Count
by Richard E. Nisbett
The Myth of Inteligence
by Patrick Winn
I noticed one thing left out of the article. The stats don’t show who is committing the crimes.
One criminal could commit many crimes. So, it might just be one percent of blacks committing most of the black crimes and it might only be a few percent of blacks committing all of the black crimes. I do know this much. The vast majority of blacks aren’t involved in crimes.
Knowing that, why does any intelligent person make sweeping generalizations about the black population and black communities?
It is also true that whites have historically committed most of the state-sanctioned violence in America. That is also true for the entire world going back through the colonial period, with numerous genocides and mass enslavement, not to mention wars of aggression, invasions, occupations, covert military operations, support of authoritarian states, and various other forms of violent oppression.
On top of that, poor white communities are violent just like poor black communities. It’s just that white privilege has allowed more whites to escape poverty and racism has disallowed this for blacks. But it’s not just poverty, for even poor whites are more likely to live in wealthier communities, because they don’t experience racist practices like redlining. A poor white can blend in with wealthier white people in a way a poor black can’t. This allows whites to take advantage of the social capital and community resources of wealthier communities.
Furthermore, there is the legacy of white affirmative action. Ira Katznelson writes about this.
Taken all together, it is obviously complex. It isn’t just race, just class, or just anything. It is the intersection of numerous forms of prejudice and oppression one side and the intersection of numerous forms of privilege and opportunity on the other side.
We need to have a serious informed public discussion in this country.
I have heard all the excuses for black crime-poverty and racism being the ones tossed around like a grenade most often. The simple fact is that blacks are more prone to violence because it is in their DNA and they are taught from birth that the White man is their mortal enemy. Whites make up by far the largest racial group below the poverty line. If poverty causes crime, why don’t Whites dominate the crime stats more? All these “scholars” treat blacks with kid gloves and coddle these savages, making every excuse they can for their animalistic behavior.There IS indeed racism involved-it is called black privilege.
I have heard all the excuses for white racism and black crime-poverty being the ones tossed around like a grenade most often. The simple fact is that, when all violence is included, whites and white majority governments are more prone to violence, especially mass violence, because they rationalize it and they are taught from birth that the Black man is their mortal enemy. Blacks make up by far the largest racial group that is both below the poverty line and trapped in poor communities as a permanent underclass continuously since slavery, all because of proven systemic and institutional racism (racial biases in employment and housing along with a legacy of white affirmative action, Jim Crow, sundown towns, etc). If racism doesn’t cause poverty, why does all the research prove that it does? All these “anti-intellectuals” treat racist whites with kid gloves and coddle these savages, making every excuse they can for their all too-human and yet depraved behavior.There IS indeed racism involved-it is called white privilege.
See how easy it is to make an argument. But there is a difference between your argument and mine, despite my copying almost the exact wording of your argument. Mine is based on facts and yours on ignorance. Mine is based on compassion and yours on bigotry. That is an important difference. I’d suggest you read some of the books I listed above, but I realize that if you were willing to inform yourself, you wouldn’t be making egregiously uninformed and misinformed opinions in the first place.
Thanks for your keen insight into this issue. What people fail to realize is that these acts are being carried out by less than 3% of the entire Black population. The other thing is that they tend to prey on OTHER Black people when it comes to assaults, homicides, rapes, etc……
The one crime that does tend to cross those racial barriers is ROBBERY. Most Blacks who have anything of value to be robbed of have a heightened sense of awareness, and are therefore more proactive in defense of such crimes. In shoryt, they KNOW trouble when they see it. Criminals exploit the unassuming attitudes and misplaced trust of all-TOO-friendly Whites. The opportunities come in social interactions such as salespersons, service workers(pizza delivery guy robbery), and such.
Blacks having higher numbers of crimes committed is only true demographically. The overwhelming and vast amount of violent crimes are committed by Whites. Its clearly not inherent to race since the outliers would outnumber the subjects. One only needs to look at the staggering crime statistics on the impoverished Indian reservations rife with substance abuse to see that it is a social issue. The “HOOD” is nothing but a Black Indian reservation, and a microcosm of concentrated social ills
Another thing to keep in mind is that race is just a social construct. What distinguishes these populations are there economic segregation, social isolation, and political disenfranchisement. Race is used as a proxy for those things, but there is a difference.
There is no single black population and no single white population. A large part of the so-called black population have as much or more European genetics than African genetics. One in twenty blacks have no detectable African genetics whatsoever, which means labeling them African-Americans is a misnomer. As for whites, many Southern Europeans have North African genetics and have skin and hair as dark as many American blacks.
The same problems found in poor black communities are found in poor white communities. What is interesting about some of those poor white communities is that many of them have been in such conditions for generations or even centuries. Some of these poor white populations have been poor going all the way back to before they immigrated to America.
These are what used to be called ethnics. There is a lot of Celtic and German ancestry in these populations. Many of them came from violent border regions, such as the Scots-Irish. As for Irish and Italians, they weren’t always considered white in America. The most isolated of these poor white communities still haven’t fully assimilated to mainstream American culture.
Every community and every group has to be considered separately on its own terms. It’s not just that whites commit most of the violence and crime in the US. It is specific whites who commit most of the white crime. The same goes for blacks.
So if you don’t think it has anything to do with poverty, hod do you assess this?
“Indian reservations across the United States have grappled for years with chronic rates of crime higher than all but a handful of the nation’s most violent cities. But the Justice Department, which is responsible for prosecuting the most serious crimes on reservations, files charges in only about half of Indian Country murder investigations and turns down nearly two-thirds of sexual assault cases, according to new federal data.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/us/on-indian-reservations-higher-crime-and-fewer-prosecutions.html
Poverty is a root cause of crime, and without solving the poverty issue it may not be possible to solve the violent crime issues plaguing Indian reservations. Where there are high rates of poverty, so there are high rates of crime. The official poverty rate for individual Indians in the United States on reservations is 29.4 percent, compared to the U.S. national average of 15.3 percent. The reservation poverty rate for Indian families on reservations is 36 percent, compared to the national average of 9.2 percent. Urban Indians have a poverty rate of 22 percent, which is better than reservation poverty rates. Some of the worst poverty rates are on reservations in the states of Washington, California, Wisconsin, Michigan, North Dakota, South Dakota, Arizona and New Mexico, where poverty rates often are higher than 60 percent.
Poverty is associated with low income, high unemployment, poor health, substandard housing, lack of market opportunities, and low educational achievement. Cycles of poverty are extremely difficult to break and tend to last over generations.
Poverty is closely related to social distress. Impoverished persons are more likely to be engaged in underground economy, use drugs and alcohol, which, in turn are highly associatied with violent crimes, domestic violence, and high crime rates.
In 2009, rapes in Indian country outpaced the total in Detroit, which is one of the most violent cities in the United States. Violent crime in Indian country increased during the 2000 to 2010 decade. Over the same decade, national violent crime rates fell, while Indian country violent crime rose by 29 percent.
Murder rates in Indian country increased 41 percent between 2000 and 2009. Nevertheless, federal funding for police and courts serving Indian country declined during the same period. While the decline in federal funding of public safety in Indian country may account for the rise in violent crimes, the funding decline does not account for the persistence of high rates of violent crime. More police, courts and jails will only partially address the fundamental issues of violence associated with poverty and social distress.
Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/10/06/breaking-cycle-poverty-and-crime-indian-country-151430
There is no dispute regarding the staggering rates of victimizationin Indian country. Indian women in particular are victimized atmore than 2½ times the national average, and morethan one-third of Indian women are raped during their lifetimes. Itis for this reason that the western district of North Carolina U.S.attorney’s office is dedicated to the vigorous prosecution of thesecrimes. Contrary to Clarkson’s assertions, this office does notdecline to prosecute violent crimes committed in Indian country,particularly those perpetrated by non-Indians against Indians thatlack state or tribal court jurisdiction.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-oewshappert16aug16-story.html#page=1
You do a good job of explaining the problems of poverty. You list many of the issues and factors involved. There is at least one other I’d add.
Pollution and toxins are a major factor. They can lead to many health conditions that are costly and debilitating. They can also stunt psychological and cognitive development and cause behavioral issues.
Lead poisoning is a great example of this, that has direct impact on both average IQ levels and violent behavior. Lead air pollution has been regulated in many nations, including the US, and violence rates have gone down worldwide, no matter the criminal policies of particular countries and cities. Even so, lead poisoning is common in poor communities because poor people are forced to live in older houses that often still have lead paint, and being poor they can’t afford to have the lead paint savely removed, assuming they even know of the danger. A single lead paint chip consumed by a child can have massive lifelong effects.
Research has found that pollution is far worse in poor communities and it is worse in poor minority communities than poor white communities. It’s partly because of polices of where to locate the type of industries that cause pollution. Also, poor people are forced to live where it is cheapest, which means where it is least desirable. Because of racial biases in housing and employment, poor minorities are forced to live in the worst conditions, especially in terms of pollution.
These problems of pollution and toxins could be taken care of with some basic regulations. But there is no political will because those most effected are those that have the least political power and influence.
everybody is racist. Every race whether you are Black White Hispanic Muslim etc.
IT DOES NOT MATTER
you can have the personal belief we or you are not, if you choose, but there is always someone committing a hate crime of every race. Numbers on who did what do not count it is just the continued grudge of our past history we can not let go.
Mr. Steele,
Pretty clear you hate the US and whites as you cherry pick histories atrocities to paint us as evil. Well, yes, mankind is pretty evil, but really…only whites? But what does that have to do with the high black crime rate? Oh yeah, I see that justifies it. Somehow that is, although the logic is lost on me. Although I bet you feed this tripe to every young black you influence, insuring this problem persists.
Look back at history and you will see many atrocities committed by almost every country, and society that has existed. Not just the white ones by the way. Black, brown, yellow, green. It’s happening right now somewhere. Every ethnic group has also been subjected to slavery by others. It isn’t exclusively a white on black injustice as you try and make it. Who is/was worse… I don’t know or care. What I do care about though is the here and now and a growing problem.
And that problem is the high black crime rate. Instead of stabilizing it seems to be getting worse (thanks Obama). These flash mobs, knockout games, riots are a threat to me and my family. I, or even worse…my sons, grandkids, could simply be walking in a mall, down the Miracle Mile in Chicago, on a sidewalk, take a wrong turn into a black neighborhood, or live near the wrong school, and only because they are white could be severely beaten, robbed, raped or murdered. Have you checked the black on white rape vs white on black stats?
Time for the black community to stop with the BS excuses and do something themselves to stop this epidemic. While blaming the whites for your self inflicted woes works with the self-loathing white libs, most whites have had enough.
@Shan
You must not have actually read any of my comments. I pointed to the inconvenient facts. I have no hatred for whites or any other race. I think races are meaningless categories in the first place and so hatred would be an odd response.
I never claimed that non-white societies have never committed atrocities. My point was simple. Consider genocides. Several of the largest genocides in world history were committed by white majority governments: Spanish genocide of Native Americans, US genocide of Native Americans, Belgium genocide of Congolese, German genocide of Jews, etc. Still, there have been some non-white majority governments and societies that have committed genocides, even if not on the same level of death count.
I don’t care about who is worse. But the facts speak for themselves. I was arguing against those who would ignore or dismiss inconvient facts.
Please refrain from making pointless and childish comments about Obama. I don’t care one way or another about Obama, but let us be honest by admitting he can’t be blamed for everything that happens in the world.
As for black crime rates, they are way down since their high point in decades past. All crime rates are much lower. Because of economic problems, there has been a slight increase of black male crime, but also of white male crime. Those economic problems began under Bush, not Obama. Anyway, if the economy returns to normal, crime rates will likely return to normal, as they’ve done in the past following economic hard times.
BTW the worst riots in US history were committed by whites. Some of those are within living memory and they destroyed entire black communities (e.g., Tulsa riot). Both in the past and the present, whites have proven themselves far more dangerous to blacks than the other way around. That is just a fact.
You should be worrying about the poverty that contributes to crime. If you take the wrong turn into a poor white community, your risk of being a victim of crime is just as high.
Time for the white community, especially the racists, to stop with BS excuses and do something themselves to stop this epidemic of racism (along with poverty and all the class issues that get conflated with race). While blaming the blacks for the woes society inflict on them works with white racists, most blacks (and most younger whites) have had enough.
@Shan
“Pretty clear you hate the US and whites as you cherry pick histories atrocities to paint us as evil.”
Why make comments like that? It makes one think that you hate the US and are projecting.
Non-whites have always been a large and influential part of American society. Many ethnic groups that are considered white today weren’t considered white when they were first immigrants.
Particular areas of the country are and always have been majority non-white. For example, many Hispanics descend from family lines that have been here in North America for longer than the US has existed, even going back to before the British colonies. The oldest buildings in the US were built by Hispanics.
American society has many origins.
Rice growing in the South came from Africa. Growing of corn, beans, and tomatoes came from the Native Americans, including ways of preparing these food items. African religion and music was incorporated into American Christianity. Cowboy culture, symbolic of American society, came from the Spanish Basque. Basque republicanisn was also an influence on John Adams. Native Americans inspired some of the founders in their thinking about the division of government.
So much of America’s economy and infrastructure was built by non-whites, from black slaves to Chinese rail workers. This country would not be what it is today, if not for the contributions of non-whites. Some of America’s greatest thinkers and inventors were and are non-white.
Whether one wants to call it hatred or bigotry, to not appreciate all of this is beyond just being uninformed and misinformed. It’s plain sad.
A few percentage of non-whites commit all of the non-white crime. The vast majority of non-whites are law-abiding American citizens. What kind of sick person blames entire populations for the bad behaviors of a few, while ignoring all that those populations have done that is positive?
Mr Steel you are a wise man
If being poor is the number one reason for crime then why are there more White people below the poverty, yet Blacks commit more crime?
The numbers don’t lie. There are more poor White people in the United States than poor Black people.
“This is the idea that some black communities, for some reason, have developed cultural values that are more tolerant of crime and violence.”
I want to focus on this point alone. Numerous reports indicate great government participation in the drug epidemic of the 80’s. Other information suggests that black entertainment was purposefully guided toward glorification of criminality, solely beginning with the music group NWA. Further links correlate this to the privatization of the prison industry.
It should not be enough to take any of this information as fact. Do some research.
None of these things are particularly hidden, but when put together, one is presented with an agenda.
Mr. Steele,
The contribution by non-whites, and blacks (African Americans) to the greatness of America is noted. It may surprise you that I…a very white guy and conservative, would agree. I may also add that blacks have fought and died for this country since the American Revolution and every war since. Even while being subjected to either outright slavery, or even worse to me -the injustice of institutional racism following emancipation. Blacks are every bit as American, and part of the American story as European descent immigrants and others.
With that said, may I remind you that we have a criminal, and social problem with a small segment of the black community… namely young black males. That is what we are here to talk about. That is what this particular blog seems to be set up for. So that is what I will limit my comments to. Yes, I agree that whites are more likely to be serial killers. We whites may have also initiated the largest riots in our history as you said. There are a lot of bad whites out there. Some scare me just looking at them. But right now we aren’t committing murder at a high rate, and harassing other segments of our society, so let us limit the discussion to the topic at hand please.
While you and many in black society may see some causative effect between the past and the present in reasoning away the statistically high violent crime rate, I and many others, including many in your own community, do not. Slavery has nothing to do with the today’s problems. Nor does the new, purposely vague catch phrase: “systemic and institutional racism” or variations thereof, as you and so many others from your community bandy about. That is simply hogwash. There is no such thing as institutional racism in the US nowadays. How could there be when Blacks comprise 13% of the population, yet 21% of all government employees. Some Federal departments are approaching 50% black now. Black president/AG/HUD/FEC. In many cities blacks have…as they have for decades, full control of the “system”. Blacks are so part of the system now -including the entertainment, sports, and music industries, it is almost laughable to keep trotting out the systemic racism thing.
So what then is the problem? Why such high rates of murder and rapes for such a small segment of our society? Well, all I can say is that we have thrown lots of money at it and that hasn’t worked. Funded many, many programs, both private and public as a solution, but that hasn’t worked either. Maybe, just maybe that money in the form of entitlements and those programs that were mean’t to help… haven’t? Perhaps they may even have wrecked the fabric of black society leading to fatherless children, gangsta worship, poor education and mothers dependent on government? But hey don’t listen to me; I’m an “angry white male”…a racist as you call me for being honest, and I think big government is inherently abusive and at the root of many societal ills.
So I say again…the black community has to stop with the BS excuses, stop blaming others, stop being the racist as so many are, and deal with this themselves. For 50 years others have tried to help to little or no avail. Now it’s YOUR turn. If you wait for others to do anymore than they have already done, you will find yourselves increasingly marginalized as…not just whites, but all other ethnic groups including Caribbean and new immigrant Africans stay as far away from you as they can. And it won’t be because of racism…it will be for their safety. When it comes to ones family, the PC goes out the window and safety takes precedent.
“It may surprise you that I…a very white guy and conservative, would agree.”
I can’t say it surprises me. Conservatives are as diverse in their views as are liberals. Such labels are broad and mean different things to different people. I try to judge people as individuals, no matter their racial or political label.
Anyway, I’m white as well. I’m not conservative, but I was raised by conservatives and spent a good portion of my life in the conservative Deep South.
“we have a criminal, and social problem with a small segment of the black community… namely young black males.”
The data shows that it is even more narrow than that. It is primarily the poorest of poor young black males living in the poorest communities and neighborhoods. In fact, it is only a small subset of that demographic that is committing most of the crime.
It’s the same way with every other racial and ethnic group. For example, at the height of Mafia violence, which was the most violent period in all of American history, most Italians weren’t involved in organized crime and general violence. Still, Italian communities were disproportionately violent, and WASPs didn’t necessarily see Italians as being whites, sometimes calling them the ‘N’ word.
“Slavery has nothing to do with the today’s problems. Nor does the new, purposely vague catch phrase: “systemic and institutional racism” or variations thereof, as you and so many others from your community bandy about. That is simply hogwash.”
I’d recommend you do some research. This has been studied in great detail. Some of the research goes back for decades. There is no way an informed person could make the statement you just made. But I realize it isn’t entirely your fault, as this isn’t info you are likely going to learn in grade school or from most of the MSM. Your lack of knowledge just makes you a typical American.
“There is no such thing as institutional racism in the US nowadays. How could there be when Blacks comprise 13% of the population, yet 21% of all government employees. Some Federal departments are approaching 50% black now. Black president/AG/HUD/FEC. In many cities blacks have…as they have for decades, full control of the “system”. Blacks are so part of the system now -including the entertainment, sports, and music industries, it is almost laughable to keep trotting out the systemic racism thing.”
Even during slavery, there were house slaves and even some black slave owners. Blacks were part of the slave system, but that isn’t to say they controlled the system and that racism didn’t exist. That is silly. Being willfully ignorant, sadly, is not laughable at all.
The problem with your beliefs is that they don’t accord with the facts. Just look at the recent Ferguson DOJ report or any other similar investigations. Read a book like The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander. A few blacks in certain positions doesn’t change the racism, as the research has proven. Ignoring reality is not helpful, just because it doesn’t fit into your preconceptions of how reality should be. Most blacks, especially among the poor, don’t have that luxury.
“So what then is the problem? Why such high rates of murder and rapes for such a small segment of our society?”
The same thing goes for the violent whites in poor communities. Why such high rates of murder and rapes for such a small segment of our society? Since it is proven that housing and unemployment practices continue to be racially biased, we also need to ask what can be done for blacks trapped in poverty by such racist practices. That is what a moral person would ask.
You have to make a decision if you want to be complicit with an unjust and morally depraved system or if you want to help make the world a better place. At present, you are making the wrong decision.
“So I say again…the black community has to stop with the BS excuses, stop blaming others, stop being the racist as so many are, and deal with this themselves. For 50 years others have tried to help to little or no avail. Now it’s YOUR turn. If you wait for others to do anymore than they have already done, you will find yourselves increasingly marginalized as…not just whites, but all other ethnic groups including Caribbean and new immigrant Africans stay as far away from you as they can. And it won’t be because of racism…it will be for their safety. When it comes to ones family, the PC goes out the window and safety takes precedent.”
So I say again…the white community has to stop with the BS excuses, stop blaming others, stop being the racist as so many are, and deal with themselves. For 50 years others have tried to stop racial biases to little or no avail. Now it’s YOUR turn. If you wait for others to stop you from being racist, you will find yourselves increasingly marginalized as people like you have marginalized others…not just blacks, but all other ethnic groups including Canadian and new immigrant Europeans stay as far away from you as they can. And it won’t be because anyone takes seriously your denials of racism…it will be for their safety that they take you out of power. When it comes to ones family and community, the lies and empty rhetoric goes out the window and demands for justice take precedent.
This a lie Black crime are down from 54% to 51% and white crime up from 43% or 45% to 50%. White crime is on the rise. That cone from the FBI census. If you gonna talk amount this..tell the truth andthe Black population not 13% percent. We was here before every generation. That’s from the bible. God scattered his chosen one’s across the world and they all was the black generation. All this come from the Bible. Black’s was the first to walk this earth. If you know the Bible. You would know what I’m talking. Like I said 13% is a lie. There’s more blacks on earth then whites. This country will not tell you the truth. Black’s rude this country. That’s why all these other country hate this country so much; you can’t go to any other country that says anything good thing about America now days. So why not give this country back to the rightful owners. You whites had mess this country up from day one.
LOLs Benjamin…here I was debating with a white liberal all along. A well read one also as you keep reminding us. Condescending too in assuming your audience is “not informed”…meaning doesn’t read books, whenever their opinion diverges from yours. Funny too how such a scholar can act childish by repeating exactly what I say and substitute my “white” with your “black”. How cute.
How about we do this…since you have read so many books and articles, why don’t you sum up all you learned and explain how the slavery that ended 150 years ago causes young black men to commit such a high percentage of the rape and murders in this country? Especially so, how it would account for a such high rate (84%) of black on black crime? The high recidivism rate?
We will keep it at that. After reading the rest of your post about the DOJ Ferguson report, “complicit in an unjust and morally depraved system”, equating today’s black government employees to the Uncle Toms of the slavery period, I’m not really interested in having much dialogue with you. You frankly sound like one of those “useful idiot” spoiled little white kids, or maybe one of the older men sporting a Che beret, I see joining the marches/riots with the blacks, and creating mayhem at the world May Day anti-capitalism marches in Seattle.
And yes, that does mean that I have a closed mind in those regards. Typical Archie Bunker conservative huh? We are all so shallow minded. Anyways, like I said, this particular blog is for discussing the high young black crime rate. When a blog opens up about Marxism, then we can talk Marxism.
@Shan
“here I was debating with a white liberal all along.”
Well, I am white and generally liberal, but most only liberal in the predispositional sense. I’m more of an independent, in political terms, most definitely not a mainstream liberal.
“Condescending too in assuming your audience is “not informed””
I don’t assume anything. I meet many well-informed and well-read people online. I judge each person individually, as well as I can, going by how they present themselves in their comments. If what someone states contradicts what is well known in a particular field, then it is fairly safe to conclude that such a person isn’t overly familiar with that area of knowledge.
“Funny too how such a scholar can act childish by repeating exactly what I say and substitute my “white” with your “black”.”
I’m not a scholar. I’m just someone with intellectual curiosity. I only repeat your words to show that the form of your argument doesn’t prove anything. You are making unfounded assertions. I was demonstrating that fact by showing the complete opposite assertions could be made with the same basic form of argument. Anyone can make unfounded assertions. In fact, people do it all the time.
“How about we do this…since you have read so many books and articles, why don’t you sum up all you learned and explain how the slavery that ended 150 years ago causes young black men to commit such a high percentage of the rape and murders in this country?”
I don’t spoon feed knowledge to people. I’ll offer book recommendations to educate yourself further. When I’ve written about a topic, I’ll sometimes offer links to posts that discuss specific issues. But I’m not going to try to force someone to learn something, if they don’t have much interest in learning.
“You frankly sound like one of those “useful idiot” spoiled little white kids, or maybe one of the older men sporting a Che beret, I see joining the marches/riots with the blacks, and creating mayhem at the world May Day anti-capitalism marches in Seattle.”
I’m more of a working class guy. I’ve done plenty of manual labor in my life and have always worked entry level jobs. I was raised by conservatives, my mother being more of a traditional social conservative and my father having a libertarian streak. I live in a rural Midwestern state, although I partly grew up in the Deep South. I briefly went to college before dropping out. By the way, it was my conservative parents who taught me a love of learning and a respect for knowledge.
“Anyways, like I said, this particular blog is for discussing the high young black crime rate. When a blog opens up about Marxism, then we can talk Marxism.”
I never mentioned Marxism. Nothing in what I’ve written has been about Marxism or anyway influenced by Marxism. I’m not a Marxist.
I have, however, discussed the issues of race and crime in great detail. You are free to choose to interact with me on the level of knowledge or on the level of opinion. I’d prefer the former, but each to their own.
Benjamin,
Just out of curiosity, I looked at your “reading list” for which you reference that helped form your opinion that slavery is a causative factor for today’s high crime rate among’st young black males. The first two authors are part of the race industry, walk/talk like Socialists/Marxists/Communists (you pick), and so compromised by their political hard left leanings they exclude themselves from serious scholarly consideration. The next historian/author is black, and has received considerable backlash for downplaying the declining role of race. The next 3 write of past racial injustices well before the great society…a period we all agree was unfair for blacks. I didn’t bother to go on.
Now I’m well read like you so we can have an intellectual discussion. Man I love this scholarly stuff. So easy and I feel so smart. :) By the way, I could come up with a list of authors, personalities…all from the African American community, who argue against slavery contributing to today’s problems within the black community. Lots of them, but unfortunately they aren’t given much press by the media as they are likened to Uncle Toms, and traitors to the black race by the race hustlers.
Now take a look at the Wikipedia history of slavery. Interesting. First sentence says this: “The history of slavery spans nearly every culture, race and religion, and from ancient times to the present day. Slavery was a legally recognized system in which people were legally considered the property or chattel of another”.
A little later it says this: ” Slavery was a common practice among Africans. There were three types: those who were slaves through conquest, those who were slaves due to unpaid debts or those whose parents gave them as slaves to tribal chiefs.”
Now what I couldn’t find anywhere Benjamin, were historical accounts of any of these other slave descendants (pick the culture) who 150 years after their enslavement committed high rates of murder and rape attributable to their great great great great grandparents misfortune….as you claim is the case for the African American community. Or did I miss something?
I don’t know… but if you ask me I think you are saying the African Americans, unlike every other enslaved culture, are incapable of getting over this slavery thing. They aren’t as good as other societies at overcoming diversity. Typical white lib it seems. Have little or no expectations of blacks and cover for them by helping them perpetuate these myths about slavery. Just an enabler. I wonder what African Americans really think of whites like you?
In contrast, we conservatives know African Americans are more than capable of righting themselves, as they proved before the government started to “help” them with the great society. All things considered, they did pretty damn well until then. I give them a lot of credit for that. They can get back to that if they would turn their backs on big government, race hustlers and panderers like you, and take matters into their own hands like they once did.
It’s called projection. When you’re politics are far right, almost everything seems to be far left of you. But unlike you, I’m not ideologically obsessed. I don’t generally concern myself with labeling authors I read in order to decide what is politically correct to my viewpoint.
There is nothing from reading The New Jim Crow that would make one think that Michelle Alexander was a Marxist or whatever. Scholars like William Julius Wilson have even be labeled as conservatives by others, because I suppose he is to the right of someone who is more of a left-winger (he downplays racism as having a major role as in the past), but in reality he seems more of a moderate.
These are serious scholars dealing with facts. Any conservative who is intellectually honest shouldn’t be afraid of facts. For example, here is a conservative review of Loewen’s book:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R3URUU4G9A1FO1/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0684818868
I read other authors on race issues as well. For example, I’ve enjoyed some of Thomas Sowell’s writings. He sometimes writes about race, but he isn’t specifically a scholar in this area. I also read authors like Glenn C. Loury who spent much of his career as an ardent conservative.
On issues besides race, I read a wide variety of views, including some right-wingers, mostly libertarians (I like to read Reason magazine). I also enjoy reading authors such as Fukuyama, who is a former neocon and I even like some of his writings during his neocon period.
Don’t be afraid to learn something new. Read some of these books and I promise you will learn something. What do you have to gain by dismissing out of hand that which you don’t know?
If you want to know some of the data about the long-term impact of slavery (and you should), one good book to read is Christine Kenneally’s ‘Invisible History of the Human Race. I’ve written about the book and quoted some of what the author has to say about the legacy of slavery:
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/11/18/facing-shared-trauma-and-seeking-hope/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/11/18/society-precarious-or-persistent/
Benjamin,
We are getting bogged down on books. Look, it may surprise you but I am well read, and surely understand the wonder of books and literature of all kinds, along with the knowledge gleaned from reading others opinions. I may not have read what you have, but I assure you my knowledge base is broad based, and I harbor no fear of “facts”….although many authors pawn opinion off as fact. But that is for another day another blog. Anyway’s, thanks for your concern. :)
By the way, Loewen’s book was about factually incorrect history teachings. Duh, I know that already, but that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Unless you are claiming I have been spoon fed falsities about slavery?… haven’t. Like I said, we are getting bogged down. So back to the discussion of whether or not today’s high murder and rape statistics among black males is attributable, and by extension pardonable, due to slavery.
I read your linked personal opinions, and critiques on various topics, and based on those will accept that you are truly interested in seeking truth no matter where it takes you. So, sorry for my stereotyping. That said, I do accept that you honestly believe that slavery accounts for the plight of the black community today. I would ask you then:
Where does that take us in your opinion? Do we accept this criminal behavior because of slavery? Condone flash mobs, rioting, murders, rapes? If so, how many more years do we accept this crime to atone for our white ancestors…in other words, is there a time limit at the end of which blacks can no longer blame whites? I don’t understand where you, or anyone with that belief is taking us in practical terms. But I am willing to learn.
In my readings though, thank goodness! there are many, many others, including those within black society that disagree. I took a quick spin through some blogs and forums today with this as a tag, and I was surprised by how many blacks said the slavery connection was a bunch of baloney. Some claimed never having once heard a discussion about slavery between any African Americans.
In support of my belief on the other hand, I could cite many authors that provide “facts” that document a correlation between the growing black dependence on government assistance starting in the 60’s with the advent of the Great Society, with the rapid dissolution of black family structure, corresponding to the rise of out-of-wedlock and fatherless children, ultimately leading to poor education, poor job outlook, poverty, all of which led to the high crime rates of young blacks of today.
Thanks.
Unfortunately statistics can be used to manipulate people. The numbers “never lie” but they can still isolate only bad number from the good numbers. These can then be explained with explanations that have never been tested or lack consistent results. Not to mention unreported crimes, arrests that were incorrect or even wrongful convictions. I would like to say poverty, education, parenting, genetics and external stimuli (their environment) determines how much crime a person will commit. However, correlation does not mean it’s the cause of the problem. For example the number of people bitten by sharks on a beach is pretty high so one might conclude based on the correlation thatclearly beaches are the problem. I’m sure we all know this is wrong. I like stats but you can’t jump on the bus with them. They very well can lead to an incorrect conclusion and very often do.
Oh, so it’s socioeconomic in nature?
Who would think that?
Oh, everyone for a hundred years, I guess.
But yeah, there is gendered and racial discrimination against black men on the judiciary system, but all this “police shooting” thing might have no relevance.
Shan – I’ll end with this. I don’t claim to have all the answers. I’ve seen various data. It’s just pieces to the puzzle. It’s complex and no one has it figured out. All of society is complex. Too many people look for simple answers and simple scapegoats. I don’t find that helpful. We should all be humble in acknowledging what we don’t know, which is greater than what we do know. But I’m more or less optimistic in that we are beginning to understand many things that we didn’t in the past. Give it time.
I start my conversation by first saying im a black man n I admit we are as a black society part of the problem, educational attainment is not valued as much as it should, the hard working black man is not held high in estimation in black society because entertainment and media (which do have a impact on impressionable youth) portray the ideal black man as an individual who has a thuggishness to them that to me is all unnecessary. It takes an internal cultural and societal shift and an asassertiveness to better the white man or black man in front of you by whatever legal means necessary to succeed and create a better place In society in American. The ideal needs to go back to worshipping the acheivers instead of the mysoginitic egotistical and mismannered. When we value citizenship and good moral values as a people we as blacks will have a better chance even though the whites will still try to keep the upper hand. Its human nature that racial conflict will occur, especially if blacks begin to climb, as we should but arent doing. This conflict will occur, but let us as blacks try to affect that via our acheivement, (remember reconstruction? Remember our explosion in prosperity in the 70s n 1990s?) We are again falling behind in the acheivement gap.
Now regarding white people. The hood was violent with the whites in Chicago in 1930 n everyone was broke. gangster movies were out the the mafia were worshipped like dons john dillinger n bonnie n clyde were celebrated as heroes. The same societal conditions exist now but they tend to b more enhanced In our black culture where the Ill gotten gain makes u a ghetto hero. The white had that thought for their own “ghetto heroes” as well but when they moved out of the hood n let us move In with white flight, they gave it up (remember Jewish gangsters? Italian gangsters? Take away their jobs and put a whole bunch of em in the hood, they start killing again I bet…any way they left in the mid 60s to the early 80s (1955-1975 (80s even later in other places?)…. as blacks we had a brief opportunity for sucess until the double whammys of crack n aids In the 80s gutted whatever chance black society had to make gains. We could have been even better than we are now, yet the media n makers of culture(YOU DIDNT THINK MEDIA AFFECTS CULTURE??? YOU ARE A DUMB ASS!!!!) took advantage of a vulnerable black society mid 1990s n started to porttray and more and more edgier rough edged version of the black man who was just what the white man wanted at the time.
So In conclusion here are my points, when subjected to a negative stereotype of yourself, by yourself, and others, you are not expected to succeed and as long as success isnt encouraged in the proper manner by black society as a whole then we wont suceed no matter what the whites can put against us because we will be too busy stumbling over each other. I understand that all cultures have some Inherent flaw, exposed within history somewhere, but when the culture n society takes a radical change within itself it can rid itself of the flaw, become more civilized n more a part of the society around it.
Well said James Winston. The only thing I would suggest is that your belief that whites are somehow against blacks, and are actively trying to keep them “down” is simply wrong. Yes, right now whites, most other ethnic cultures, even many blacks such as yourself, are very critical of black society as a whole, because it is a growing threat to us all with it’s high crime rates.
Nothing new there as the black crime rate has been quite high for some time, but this recent trend to “take it to the suburbs” with flash mobs, knock out games, harassing…or in the case recently of Cleveland and Baltimore, attacking peaceful diners, is upping the threat beyond the inner city, and bringing criticisms to a fever pitch.
But I assure you whites would be more than welcome of a successful black community. In fact, while you may not believe it, whites have been trying in every way possible since the 60s to assist blacks to help them succeed. Not only through government programs…which seemed to have backfired and destroyed the black family structure, which IMO has led to the bulk of the problems, but also personally. I could tick off pages of such examples.
Were black schools the high standard of education, then we would be trying to get in your schools. If your communities were peaceful, welcoming, prosperous, we would be moving there and you’d probably be worried about the trash moving in. :)
So trust me when I say whites very much want for blacks to do well. It sure would make the US all the better.
I grew up in a mixed neighborhood, attended a non segregated elementary and junior high school. I was attacked everyday of every week of school by blacks attempting to take my lunch money, clothes, bikes, etc. It happened for years until we united and formed our own group (karate club), and fought back. Black kids that lived in the projects attended the same junior high school as I did. The education was equal for everyone. Some made it out of poverty and some didn’t. I can tell you that the same problems we have now, I had 40+ years ago! Nothing has changed, and nothing will change as long as people choose to be victims. If you keep blaming “The Man” for all your woes you will surely keep experiencing the same results. One of my good friends (black) made it out and is now an educated professional living in a mostly white neighborhood with his children attending a better school than mine. He too was attacked by his own for hanging around us “non black” dudes. My friend used to say regularly “I gots to gets mine” and he did!
Just because there might be a correlation between poorer areas and crime does not mean that poorer areas cause crime, it could be the crime that causes the areas to be poorer. I think the evidence does show that black people are more likely to offend than white people, of course that’s no reason to treat black people less favorably. The issue that brought this to the public eye though is the lovely media attempting to create controversy for interest. I would like to see statistics on whether more black people are shot by the police than white people and then compare the statistics of both to the proportion of crimes committed.
“Just because there might be a correlation between poorer areas and crime does not mean that poorer areas cause crime, it could be the crime that causes the areas to be poorer.”
The more interesting question is why are people like you so desperate to dismiss such strong correlations. It is common sense that poverty is a contributing factor crime. There is even data that supports this conclusion, beyond mere correlation.
“I think the evidence does show that black people are more likely to offend than white people, of course that’s no reason to treat black people less favorably.”
The problem, as always, with opinions like yours is that they are contradicted by the facts. The evidence, in many cases, shows the opposite of what you assume. Whites (per capita) are more likely to carry, use, and become addicted to drugs. Whites are more likely to carry illegal guns. Whites are more likely to commit many other crimes as well. But still blacks are arrested and convicted more for these very crimes.
“The issue that brought this to the public eye though is the lovely media attempting to create controversy for interest. I would like to see statistics on whether more black people are shot by the police than white people and then compare the statistics of both to the proportion of crimes committed.”
That data would be interesting. Still, maybe you should simply start with some of the easy to obtain data that contradicts your opinions. After that, we can discuss more complicated issues.
Very sad, what is going on. We must all pray. I come from a family of cops that are not racist or looking to pick off African Americans. They are trying to enforce laws. There are bad apples out there. But, statistically, most are just doing their job. When cops see evidence of the commission of crimes, by oath, they have to act. My brothers, father, and uncle have been shot at, been in chase scenes where they could have been killed and looked cold-blooded killers in the eye. They are/were highly trained, but get scared, too. Racist or bad behavior by and officer of the law should never be tolerated and prosecuted to the fullest extent. Actions by police that do not follow standard procedure leading to injury or death of a suspect of any color should be treated as a tort case. There are courts for all of this. But, I feel bad that my brothers are now targets because they are white and a cop and lumped in with all that is bad. Very sad state of affairs in our nation today. We need a Savior.
Praying for the pastors and fellow brothers and sisters killed at a Bible Study… Lord, Help us…
I’ve read some interesting comments here. Thanks to most of you guys for having different viewpoints in a respectful no degrading manner. I would like to say first of all that I grew up in a very danger “hood” and know first hand about the lack of opportunities and the predisposed dark paths based on the level of “povert” present. Blacks get stereotyped based off poverty and lack of opportunities. All blacks eat chicken, watermelon, can’t swim. You know why america thinks this? Because most impoverished black families struggled to survive. Chicken is/was a very cheap meat that can feed many easily. Same with watermelons. As for pools, how many pools do you think we’re in these neighborhoods in the 70s-90s? Zero. This society has predisposed many blacks to low quality living standards, mediocre jobs, shotty govt assistance, etc. that is a breeding ground for crime and other unfortunate situations. It’s up to individuals to say enough is enough and aim higher. It sometimes they simply can’t and fall at the wayside. Luckily I was able to join the military, get 2 degrees, buy a house for my beautiful family and build our futures. A lot of is aren’t that lucky. Government and society should assist those who are willing to make this disparity a distant memory. Cheers.
I love how we blame poverty for violence, I prefer to look to Darwin and see the correlation that asians average IQ is 109, lowest crime per capita, and most successful race, second Caucasian average IQ 99 in US, crime higher, and medium success rates, then finally African americans, average IQ 91, lower attainment rates and higher crime rates, higher breakdown of family structure. None of this is racist, these are cited statistics.
The media is also by contrast racist in the US, example, a black thug gets shot by police offer, or like robbing pharmacy in Oklahoma and its a race crime, and our president automatically speaks out. Two black gang bangers shoot a white honor role Australian white student in Duncan Oklahoma and the media clams up and not a mention. Furthermore our racist president does not speak out either because its black on white and that’s OK in his eyes.
I came across this article again. What is annoying about it is that the question in the title is never answered. The author never looks at all forms of crime. The author doesn’t even look at all forms of violent crime.
It’s hardly a secret that whites commit all kinds of more crimes per capita. How did the author miss all the data?
Whites carry, use, deal, and get addicted to illegal drugs more than blacks. Whites carry illegal guns more than blacks. Whites commit more mass murders and bombings than blacks. Whites commit particular types of abuse more than blacks.
Also, the author never investigates very deeply the issue of racial profiling and targeting. Massive amount of research has shown that racial bias exists. Even for many of these crimes that whites commit more, blacks still get arrested and convicted more.
How could the author be ignorant of all this. Didn’t this person take seriously the very question he posed? Reading a few books would have dispelled his ignorance and allowed him to write a more informed article. Sadly, the comments section ends up being more informative than the article.
Benjamin,
Whites do commit some crimes disproportionately as you say. Serial killing for one. Mass murders from demonic, anarchist types, and just recently in SC a demonic type that was also racist -specifically against blacks. Lots of us whites are sexual perverts too. Not me, not you, but I own up to the fact my own do these things. Other type crimes too I’m sure, although I don’t have your reading list (you and your books!) on what those would be…but yes, we whites are guilty as charged!
That said, may I ask you how we whites respond, or better said…how you think we respond, to other whites whom are caught violating the law?
Do we condone? Excuse? Justify? Riot when our fellow criminal whites are arrested?…Or manhandled during arrest? Die in custody? Blame the cops -and not the serial killer they are arresting who just cut up 10 innocent whites, for having no other choice but to respond aggressively, forcefully even, because this white was resisting arrest ? Hey, maybe he wasn’t resisting at all.
Do we whites protest that the criminal justice system has too many white perverts, mass murderers in jail? Harass cops as they go about their duties in our neighborhoods in response? Video, hit, spit at, or overall interfering with cops trying to arrest someone who is a threat to other whites?
Lots of ? marks there Benjamin. If you can handle it, I am curious to hear your response. Please, please though don’t tell me to read another dang book!
Just your opinion. Nothing else.
And if you dare answer all those questions, I ask you, in your opinion, how the black community compares. Not just in comparison to us whites, but all other ethnic communities.
Shan – Okay, just my opinion.
I was recently looking at three related issues: race, poverty, and violence. They are separate issues that often get conflated. But there is a good reason they get conflated for they overlap.
Take poverty as the starting point. There are more whites in poverty than blacks. OTOH there are disproportionately more balcks per capita in poverty. Also, poverty for blacks is far worse.
There are a number of reasons for this.
A simple one is that there are more poor blacks in poor black communities than poor whites in poor white communities. It is easier for a poor white to move to and blend in a wealthier white community, because if nothing else he has his skin color going for him. Since many whites think of blacks when they think of poverty, they don’t see poor whites in the same way, assuming they notice them at all. A poor white more easily blends in.
Plus, racial biases in housing and employment make it harder for blacks to escape poverty. A black male with no criminal record is less likely to get hired or even get an interview than a white male with a criminal record, even when both are equally qualified. Studies have shown merely having a black-sounding name will induce racism in potential employers. Redlining was a common practice in keeping blacks out of white neighborhoods which kept them stuck in poor neighborhoods, and studies show this kind of racism is still occurring, just not as openly.
On top of that, studies have shown the media to be racially biased. Just as blacks are arrested more for crimes whites commit more, the news reports more on black crimes even for crimes that whites commit in higher numbers and at higher rates. This creates a false perception of black criminality. It also relates to why Americans have an incorrect belief that violent crime is increasing, when in reality it is at its lowest in a half century. Americans also don’t realize that most of the mass incarceration is because of non-violent drug crimes and most of that just for personal use.
Here is a strange thing. Since the War On Drugs began, drug use has actually increased. Much of it is for marijuana. The majority of Americans have smoked marijuana. Many more have tried other illegal drugs as well. Several presidents at this point have basically admitted to using illegal drugs, but of course it is poor minorities that are those targeted by the drug wars. Fortunately, Americans now support decriminalization and/or legalization of many drugs, not that this helps all those individuals, families, and communities that had their lives destroyed.
Another strange thing is that this mass incarceration has been ramped up even as violent crimes have been going down for two decades now. In fact, even in cities and states that went the opposite path by decreasing incarceration, they too had dropping violent crime rates. All across the developed world there has been downward trend of violent crime, no matter the public policies used. It’s obviously a change in environmental conditions that is at a global, rather than local, scale. Of course, local officials want to take credit for this, but all their explanations are mostly BS.
The most compelling explanation so far is lead toxicity. It has been studied for a long time and a lot is known about it.
Researchers have shown a number of things, including using the gold standard of dose-response curve. They’ve shown that, when local or national governments implemented lead pollution regulation, a major decrease in violent crime followed about twenty years later. This is as expected. It’s continuous lead exposure in the first few years of life that causes permanent damage, but only manifests as violent crime when individuals reach adulthood. Besides causing aggressive behavior, lead is causally linked to less impulse control, social problems, ADHD, stunted cognitive development, lower IQ, etc.
This directly relates to poverty and race. Tests have measured lead toxicity in various demographics. Poor people test higher than wealthier people. Minorities test higher than whites. Poor minorities test higher than poor whites. Hispanics test higher than whites. Blacks test higher than Hispanics. Native Americans, as I recall, have test high as well.
The reason for this is obviously neither genetic nor cultural. It’s purely environmental and its impact is massive. It’s also continuing, as the lead pollution remains where it is until is cleaned up, whether because the lead paint and lead pipes in old houses in poor communities or because of its accumulation in the soil that winds pick up as particles that get inhaled.
The studies have shown why the environmental disparities exist in particular places. While blacks were trapped in the inner cities, white flight occurred that led to whites becoming concentrated in suburbs. This required building bypasses in the big cities and these bypasses were of course built right through these poor minority neighborhoods, both isolating them with a lack of on-ramps and concentrating the lead pollution in these places through leaded gasoline.
Lead had been put into gasoline since the 1930s, but it was only in the following decades that the major road infrastructures were created and cars became more common. So, the lag time for the full lead impact lead to the violent crime wave from the 1970s to the early 1990s. It was in the later 1970s when lead was more regulated and that is why violent crime began to fall in the mid 1990s.
Another factor is that racialized politics caused toxic dumps to be placed in minority neighborhoods, both in black communities and on Native American reservations. Because these are poor disadvantaged populations, they didn’t have the economic, social, and political clout to stop these toxic dumps from being placed near their homes. There is a long history of this kind of environmental racism.
This also shows how it isn’t just an urban thing. Those Native American communities are largely rural. This is also shown with an earlier crime wave that happened in the first decades of last century. In the 1880s, lead was first used widely in the US. It’s primary purposes at the time was lead paint used for barns and lead arsenate used for crops. Since most of the population was rural at the time, the violent crime was concentrated in the rural areas, both in terms of total numbers and per capita.
That said, all of this should be put into perspective. The highest rates of homicide in the 20th century were many times lower than the rates at any time during the previous 19th and 18th centuries. Lead toxicity isn’t necessary for aggressive behavior and impulse control issues. America was known as a violent place by Europeans for a long time.
It also should be mentioned that this earlier period of greater violence was mostly white. One study of postbellum rural Louisiana found that most of the violence against both whites and blacks was committed by whites, even though there was a large black population there. Blacks there did commit other crimes such as theft, since they were quite poor, but they committed very little violence even against other blacks. There was no reason whites would have cared if blacks killed other blacks, but for some reason those blacks just weren’t violent.
You still see that pattern. Rural blacks today don’t show the violent crime rates of urban blacks. Maybe it is the environmental conditions. Obviously, it isn’t mere genetics or culture.
You ask me what whites should do. Well, the first thing whites should do is be more humble about how little they know and understand. After that, whites should inform themselves about the type of things I just wrote about. Studies show that environmental influences are powerful. If we want to make a difference, we should start there. Then and only then will we be able to seriously discuss the tougher issues.
Also, if whites want to be taken seriously themselves, a maybe better initial step would be to stop enforcing racial biases onto non-whites. Or at least to confront the proven racism in our society. Humility is always a good thing.
I have had one thing on my mind for a long time. It’s about how issues, events, and people get framed and labeled, interpreted and perceived.
Why was the 9/11 attack called terrorism when it only killed a few thousand innocent people but the unjustified and illegal war of aggression in Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people wasn’t called terrorism? Why is a mass killing by a Muslim called terrorism but when a white Christian right-winger does the same thing excuses are made and no one generalizes about all white people or all Christians?
Why does the mainstream media not obsess over a white biker gang having a shoot out with the police in the way they do with minority gangs? Why does our society accept white right-wingers carrying guns at a political gathering or pointing those guns at federal agents in a way that would never be acceptable if done by blacks or Hispanics?
Why does the FBI list a non-violent environmentalist group as a terrorist organization when they’ve never killed, attempted to kill, or ever stated the intention of killing anyone? Why is the decades-long wave of white right-wing ideologically-motivated violence not overly newsworthy, despite it involving kidnappings, arson, bombings, shootings, and assassinations (instead, each incident usually being treated in isolation and rarely put into context)?
Why do blacks get targeted and profiled, stopped and frisked, arrested and convicted more for crimes that whites commit more? Why do blacks get portrayed in the news more for crimes that whites committ more, both in total numbers and per capita?
Why do cops so often shoot blacks even when they have no weapons and so often don’t shoot whites even when they do have weapons? Why does research show that cops are more likely to believe they saw a black holding a weapon when they weren’t and more likely to believe a white had no weapon when they did?
Why are blacks seen as violent but not the racism that has destroyed their lives, families, and communities? Why is systematically putting toxic dumps into poor minority neighborhoods not considered an act of mass violence or even a crime against humanity?
Why does racism persist, as shown in thousands of studies and sets of data, even as most Americans deny being racist? Why is it when every rational, half-way intelligent person knows racism still exists that it is so hard to have a public discussion about it?
“..and high black arrest rates could be taken as evidence that the police are racist.”,
yeh, but it makes more sense to use as evidence of the fact that BLACKS COMMIT MORE CRIMES. hello!
Benjamin,
Obviously you care deeply for the black community. But honestly, were I black, I would be a bit insulted by your defense of them as you pretty much portray them as having low IQs, stunted cognitive skills and ridden with ADHD. Largely because they live in, or near, toxic waste dumps and eat lead paint. My gosh man…what next, you going to tell me they come out at night to feast on the living?
Yes, I know you are trying to relieve them of blame for their relatively poor performance within today’s society. You do mean well, but I can’t help but wonder if you are simply making things worse by advancing what they call the: “bigotry of low expectations”? And you, as do so many other do-gooders, do have little expectation it seems.
I have lived among’st and worked with blacks all my life. Just went to a funeral where whites and blacks stood side by side to mourn the passing of a good man. And unlike you, I see black society as fully capable of standing up on their own, without government, or guilty white liberals help to resolve the high violent crime rate of their young, urban, blacks. Unfortunately they don’t seem to want to do a whole lot about it…prompting this blogs host to open up discussion on the matter. In fact, it seems many (black and white) seem to be encouraging, or at least condoning, this violence to protest the latest outrage du jour: “institutional racism”. Odd to me they would do this as it is mostly young blacks killing other blacks, and after all “black lives matter”?
Thanks Benjamin for your response to my post. You got a bit carried away if you ask me, but yours was a good read. Still though I am unswayed, and stubbornly cling to my belief…like I cling to my gun :), that the problems that have befallen black society are attributable to the government wrecking their family structure, followed by very high “out of wedlock”, and subsequently, fatherless babies, which inevitably lead to poor education, poor job prospects, gangsta worship, and what we are hear to discuss…high crime rates.
If it makes you, or any of the blacks who will read this happy; I see the same thing happening within the white community. It actually started about 15 years ago and seems to picking up some steam. Many young whites being lured into, then corrupted by the government entitlement system. Once within, they lose all motivation to get a real job. Too lazy to get an education. Little self worth. Marriage…why bother. You been to a WalMart lately? If so, you would see what I mean. Some “master race”…LOLs.
Anyways, it use to be we in the white community would scorn and pressure our own whom were lazy and living off welfare, but few bother now for fear of not being PC. Wouldn’t be a bit surprised if more whites start taking to violent crime like the blacks started doing way back then. Rioting too as we are seeing a bit of on college campuses. Hey, maybe after we all make it to the bottom we can all, finally, be equal?
Big, intrusive government is the problem.
Take care
@Shan – “But honestly, were I black, I would be a bit insulted by your defense of them as you pretty much portray them as having low IQs, stunted cognitive skills and ridden with ADHD.”
Do I have to explain the obvious to you?
If you regularly beat a child, it also causes all kinds of psychological, behavioral, and cognitive problems. But that isn’t the fault of the child. It also doesn’t mean the child doesn’t have much potential.
It is simply true that the stresses of poverty knock off 13 or so IQ points. That is sad, but it doesn’t stop it from being true. That isn’t the fault of the poor. Even so, blacks who are disproportionately poor have a higher average IQ today than whites had several generations ago.
The problems of poverty and other environmentally destructive conditions also effect whites. Even though blacks are disproportionately poor and worse off in their poverty, it remains a fact that more whites are poor.
Many of these poor whites live in toxic areas, disproportionately fewer but still the number could be high, maybe even higher number than blacks even if lower per capita. In terms of total damage done by lead toxicity, it’s highly possible that whites are in some ways more effected, especially in terms of how many poor whites are effected. The total loss of IQ points may be greater for whites than blacks.
This data overall is about averages. Yes, because of racism, whites on average live in better environmental conditions than blacks. One would have to be an idiot to deny that. Still, plenty of whites are poor and show the same kinds of problems as poor blacks. A number of authors have studied poor whites. A recent example is Charles Murray in Coming Apart. His focus is on whites, but he does note that the problems he describes are basically the same across races.
Environmental conditions are always changing. A little over a century ago, the majority of blacks were still rural. It was before Jim Crow, sundown towns, redlining, etc. At that time blacks had lower violent crime rates than whites. The environmental conditions were different and so were the resulting behaviors.
Thomas Sowell, a conservative, notes that the problems seen with blacks are the same problems seen with every rural population that became quickly urbanized, including various white ethnic groups. Earlier last century, there were a number of groups of whites that had higher rates of social problems than blacks, such as Italians and Irish. What changed the problems for those groups was the change of environmental conditions over the generations. Because they didn’t have the hurdle of racism, it was easier for them to eventually escape the worst conditions.
There have been white populations that had higher lead toxicity than modern American blacks. There were two earlier crime waves, one starting around the 1900s and the other around the 1920s. Both of those crime waves mostly involved white people. Also, at that time, the offending groups of white people had lower IQs. Some see the cause of those two crime waves as also having been caused or contributed to by lead. The first one happened primarily in rural areas, where lead use had increased in the 1880s through barn paint and farm chemicals (there is about a two decade lag to see the full social impact when the kids with lead toxicity become adults). The second was urban and correlated with rapid industrialization and mass pollution.
By today’s standards (without norming IQs), the average white of several generations ago would be considered functionally retarded. I don’t mean that as an insult. It’s just a fact. Environmental conditions are powerful. Most people used to live in far from optimal conditions.
If you go further back in history, you can find even worse examples of lead poisoning. Some populations in the late Roman Empire had more than twice the lead toxicity than is found today. The Romans didn’t know the problems with lead and used it in everything. Their aqueducts, pipes, and dishes were made out of lead. They even flavored their wine with lead. What made it even more different from today is that it was the wealthy who had the most lead exposure. Enough lead won’t just make you aggressive. It eventually will drive you insane as well. Some speculate that this helped bring down the Roman Empire.
Fortunately, lead toxicity today is relatively minor in comparison.
“I have lived among’st and worked with blacks all my life.”
Many people have lived among blacks. That is no great accomplishment. I’ve lived among blacks. In fact, I spent half of my childhood surrounded by blacks. I can’t say that by itself gives me any special insight into blacks. Some of the most racist people live around blacks. The Charleston shooter went to the same school district I went to in Columbia, SC. He even lived in the same neighorhood with and apparently was ‘friends’ with blacks. It didn’t stop him from being racist. The same goes for those with milder and less violent forms of racial prejudice, even when unconscious.
“And unlike you, I see black society as fully capable of standing up on their own, without government, or guilty white liberals help to resolve the high violent crime rate of their young, urban, blacks.”
I agree that blacks are as capable of “standing on their own” as anyone. But that is obviously an ideologically loaded, rather than a scientifically informed, statement. Most blacks too are all about taking responsibility for what they can change and influence. Most blacks want to have the same opportunities as whites to be equally rewarded for hard work.
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/whose-work-counts-who-gets-counted/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/working-hard-but-for-what/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2015/01/03/worthless-non-workers/
The harshest critics of blacks are often blacks, just as the harshest critics of whites often are whites (such as me criticizing you). There is plenty of responsibility that all Americans should be taking.
The problem with your belief is that is BS. Whites have never stood on their own. Read When Affirmative Action Was White by Ira Katznelson. Whites continually and disproportionately experience all kinds of privileges, opportunities, and resources.
“Odd to me they would do this as it is mostly young blacks killing other blacks, and after all “black lives matter”?”
Lots of things are odd. Most whites are the victims of other whites. Whites kill whites and lots of other things. That is as true today as when the crime rate was higher for whites earlier last century. The rate of child molestation is extremely high among whites and it mostly involves white children. Talk about messed up.
“Still though I am unswayed, and stubbornly cling to my belief”
Well, I’ll cling to the known facts.
“If it makes you, or any of the blacks who will read this happy; I see the same thing happening within the white community. It actually started about 15 years ago and seems to picking up some steam.”
It’s happened to white people throughout history, including recent history of the past century. These things are constantly shifting. It’s only people with limited knowledge and narrow vision that seek to scapegoat specific groups. The world is always changing.
Right now, violent crime is going down and IQs are going up for every group. But the fear-mongerers ignore that kind of data. Blacks are less violent and more intelligent than the average white of the past. I personally see that as a sign of progress, when our worse off demographics are still better off compared to what came before.
“Big, intrusive government is the problem.”
America was a far more violent place before big government. I’m a libertarian in my ideal world, but I don’t knee-jerk blame the government for everything.
We have to learn to think more carefully about all of these issues. That is true for everyone, from the political left to the political right. American society right now could use a large dose of intellectual humility and personal humility as well. That would be a good first step toward having the clarity and vision to act responsibly as a society.
@Shan – I do appreciate that you genuinely seem like a humble person. I disagree with you because, from my perspective, you are ignoring more data than you are considering. But I understand that, coming from what knowledge and personal experience you have, you are trying to be fairminded.
That said, I would point that no one is arguing that culture, family values, and personal responsibility play no role. Blacks generally obsess critically over such things more than whites do. It’s the same reason that blacks have higher rates of religiosity than whites. All minoriy groups are extremely socially conservative by white standards.
Part of the problem is the assumptions we bring to daata determines not just only which data we will consider and emphasize while which data we’ll ignore or dismiss. Our assumptions also determine how we will analyze and parse data, how will perceive and interpret what it means.
Let me give you an example by considering rural crime.
In America, race issues tend to get conflated with other issues. That is definitely true with class. This is why the white poor get ignored, even though they are and always have been the majority of the poor and even though they often in the past were among the most violent poor (Scots-Irish, Irish, Italians, etc). Rates of violence for those past poor whites in many cases haven’t been seen again in the US, even among today’s inner city blacks.
The other thing race gets conflated to with is area of residence. Blacks were urbanized much latter than most whites, and the American population was in general urbanized much later than many European countries. It was only sometime between the 1940s and 1970s that blacks became majority urban. It was also only around that time when black violent crime became a major issue. Most rural populations show major social problems in at least the first few generations of urbanization, specifically when it is rapid urbanization as happened with populations like blacks. This is a well documented phenomenon.
The strange thing, however, is that for most of American history blacks were less violent than whites. Even when blacks and whites were living together in the same rural areas during the 1800s, white violence was on average way above that of blacks. That was even true in the decades following blacks gaining freedom and moving into their own communities.
As some have noted, the first things many blacks sought after being freed was their family members that had been taken away. These blacks understood the value of family more than almost any other American group. This was demonstrated in their high marriage rates and two parent households well into the twentieth century. It was only with the rise of urbanization and the problems of urban environments (e.g., lead toxicity), along with Jim Crow and such, that the social fabric of black families and communities began to fray.
So, what caused so many 19th century rural whites to be so violent? Why did they continue to be so violent when they were urbanized, only to later see a decrease when they left the big cities for the suburbs? And why did blacks, among the most peaceful of Americans, become among the most violent so late in their history during the mid to late twentieth century?
There was obviously a lot going on that we only at best partly understand. I’m sure lead pollution explains a large portion of these shifts as research has proven the causal link with specific populations. Still, one suspects there was a whole mess of factors involved. It’s not just that populations were moving, but the entire society was shifting in every imaginable way (socially, economically, and politically).
The world never saw such drastic changes to populations as happened over this past century or so. That change was even more drastic for blacks who began as slaves not that many generations ago. Civil War veterans were still alive in my father’s childhood.
None of that is to evade responsibility. It just means we can’t solve problems that we don’t understand. Most of what Americans do is deal with symptoms, instead of facing tough problems and complex issues. We Americans tend to be reactionary in our politics, which often ends up being counterproductive at best and self-defeating at worst.
To return to my original point, let me clarify the rural versus urban comparison.
I was reading a book discussing rural crime. Apparently, there isn’t a lot of data about it. There are a number of reasons. American academics, politicians, and media have obsessed over urban crime and largely ignored its rural counterpart. Plus, rural police are less compliant about sending their data to the FBI. Besides, there are simply fewere officers in rural areas to patrol, investigate crimes, and arrest criminals. On top of that, rural police and researchers have observed that rural populations are less likely to report crimes.
So, no one is entirely sure what crime rates are like in rural areas. However, some studies have been done. The most interesting study took a more careful look. Most data about rurual crime had included small towns/cities in the rural areas. Only one study I know of considered actual rural areas separately. It was found that rural areas were had more violent crime on average than urban areas. The safest places were smaller urban areas and the next safest was large urban areas. On the other hand, small towns had the highest rates of vandalism, fraud, and larceny.
Anyway, my point is that we know rural areas are extremely violent places. We just don’t know how violent. They may have as high or higher crime rates than even inner cities. We do know that rural areas, especially in the South, have the highest rates of suicides, drunk driving, car accidents, shooting acccidents, stand your ground shootings, accidental deaths of all varieties, etc. Rural people are prone to early and often violent deaths, for whatever reason.
Most rural areas today are white majority populations. Why this tendency toward violence and early death? Rural blacks in the past weren’t prone to violence. I’m not entirely sure about rural blacks today, but I do know rural blacks along with urban blacks maintain lower suicide rates as they maintain lower child molestation rates. Why?
These are the challenging questions so few Americans are willing to ask, if it ever occurs to them to give it much thought. I personally find it fascinating. These various patterns indicate something deeper and more complicated than conventional political explanations allow for. Why do we satisfy ourselves with comfortable, easy answers with simplistic causes and solutions?
Benjamin,
As you seem to focus on it, I decided to read up on this issue of lead poisoning as it relates to increased crime rates. Read some interesting studies you refer to. Also read peer review and comments of those same studies. Interesting really. Thanks for putting me onto it. In thinking of an intelligent reply I came across this that best sums up my thoughts:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lead-crime_hypothesis
It does lend some validity to lead poisoning possibly/likely being one of the many socioeconomic factors predisposing one to crime, but hardly so prominent as some think. Definitely not THE reason though. Possibly one day it will be shown to be more implicated, but when studied from a worldwide, macro perspective, it just doesn’t pan out. Remember, we in the US are not the only ones that ate, drank, and inhaled lead as your Roman reference shows. Other populations don’t seem to have the same “curves” we have, so there must be other things involved.
And obviously SOMETHING does cause, or leads to a life of crime. What that is…take your pick. “Experts” haven’t even settled on that either. Most point to multiple factors; i.e IQ, family structure, economic, environment (lead/toxins) etc and etc. Some politicize it as a “race/ethnic” only issue. Some like myself politicize it by placing all the blame on the government. :)
Civilizations throughout history have tried to understand this very problem and none seem to have to figured it out. My guess is that we here won’t either. All civilizations have also come to the reality that no matter the cause, criminal actions still have to be punished. Under mitigating circumstances like IQ <70, they are given a little more leniency, but nonetheless are still punished.
So that brings us back to square one….which the lead off article sums up nicely: blacks are disproportionately represented in the crime statistics. And Benjamin, we aren't talking by slim margins -no we're talking about huge margins. Even assuming they are all low IQ zombies due their ingesting lead, that alone still wouldn't account for this disparity oit would seem?
And let me ask you this: if you or your children become a victim of black on white crime, will you feel any less animosity toward the perpetrator because you think blacks are victims in our society? Will you expect a more lenient sentence for their assault, rape, beating, robbery on you due a slightly higher blood lead level?
Take care. Sorry for the late reply. This is a hobby for when I have the time.
@ Shan –
The Moral Arc
by Michael Shermer
Kindle Locations 6724-6737
“[C]riminals— especially psychopathic criminals (which, recall, make up at least half of the prison population of violent offenders)— show different physiological responses to such emotions as distress or sadness when compared to noncriminal brains. “They failed to show the emotions required; they failed to show the physical response. It was as though they knew the words but not the music of empathy.” Brain scans revealed that “Our population of inmates had a deficient amygdala, which likely led to their lack of empathy and their immoral behavior.” 26
“One avenue of treatment for these neurologically impaired psychopaths is neurogenesis, or the birth of new neurons in the adult brain. Take mice. If you raise them in a prison-cell-like environment devoid of stimulation, they lose their capacity to form bonds with their fellow mice when they are reintroduced to them. But if you raise mice in an enriched environment, they not only form normal attachments with their fellow group members, they also experience the growth of new brain cells and connections, which not only leads them to “perform better on a range of learning and memory tasks,” says Reisel, but also “their improved environment results in healthy, sociable behavior.” Reisel then draws the analogy with prison: “When you think about it, it is ironic that our current solution for people with dysfunctional amygdalas is to place them in an environment that actually inhibits any chance of further growth.” Of course, our natural propensity to punish wrongdoers results in a system of retributive justice, but Reisel would like us to also consider the treatment of these broken brains through rehabilitation programs and restorative justice programs,”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2755422
“The behavioral deficits observed after lead exposure have been related to limbic system dysfunction. In a previous study it was shown that the neurotoxicity of lead could not be explained by the damage of the hippocampus alone. The purpose of the present investigation was to use behavioral comparisons to test the hypothesis that the intrinsic neurons of several nuclei of the amygdala, where lead has been found to accumulate, can be a target of the effects of the metal as well. A group of rats were maternally and permanently exposed to lead (750 ppm in the diet as lead acetate). Another group of equally aged and housed rats, never experimentally exposed to lead, were injected ibotenic acid into the amygdala. All groups plus sham-operated and unoperated controls were tested in the open field, the radial arm maze, and a passive avoidance task. The results showed that lead exposure (both permanent and maternal) and amygdalectomy produced a) no effect on locomotor activity, b) impairments in the acquisition phase of the radial maze, and c) impairments in passive avoidance. These results suggest an involvement of the amygdala in the neurotoxic action of lead, but not as the only brain structure. The deficits in permanently lead-exposed rats are more pronounced than in only maternally-exposed animals suggesting a longlasting, but not totally irreversible effect of early lead exposure.”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0378427478900656?np=y
“Brains from four adult males without occupational exposure to lead have been analyzed for lead. The highest lead levels were found in the hippocampus and the amygdala, while lower lead concentrations were present in the medulla oblongata and the cerebellum. The corpus callosum and the optic tract were lowest in lead. The lead concentrations were significantly correlated to the potassium concentrations in the regions studied. This indicates that lead is mostly accumulated in cell-rich parts of the brain. Differences in the vulnerability of brain regions in lead poisoning is, therefore, possibly a result of differences in cellular sensivity to lead.”
http://www3.amherst.edu/~jwreyes/papers/LeadCrimeNBERWP13097.pdf
“This paper argues that the removal of lead from gasoline in the late 1970s under the Clean Air Act is an additional important factor in explaining the decline in crime in the 1990s. The main result of the paper is that changes in childhood lead exposure are responsible for a 56% drop in violent crime in the 1990s. This paper argues that theremoval of lead from gasoline in the late 1970s under the Clean Air Act is an additional importantfactor in explaining the decline in crime in the 1990s. The main result of the paper is that changes in childhood lead exposure are responsible for a 56% drop in violent crime in the 1990s.”
http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2013/08/18/the-decline-in-crime-among-black-youths
http://www.amren.com/news/2014/04/did-removing-lead-from-petrol-spark-a-decline-in-crime/
“Dr Bernard Gesch says the data now suggests that lead could account for as much as 90% of the changing crime rate during the 20th Century across all of the world.”
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/01/lead-crime-connection
“If this curve were the only bit of evidence we had, the connection between lead and violent crime would be pretty thin. But it’s not. You should read the story to understand just how many different studies confirm this relationship. In addition, over the last decade there’s been a tsunami of new medical research about just what lead poisoning—even at very low levels—does to children. […]
“We now have a huge amount of evidence linking lead to violent crime. We have evidence not just at the national level, but also at the state level, the city level, and the international level. We have longitudinal studies that track children from birth to adulthood to find out if higher blood lead levels lead to more arrests for violent crimes. And perhaps most important, this is a theory that just makes sense. Everything we now know about the effects of lead on the brain tells us that even moderately high levels of lead exposure are associated with aggressivity, impulsivity, ADHD, and lower IQ. And right there, you’ve practically defined the profile of a violent young offender.”
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/01/lead-and-crime-some-new-evidence-century-ago
“Cities with at least some lead piping had murder rates that were, on average, 8.6 percent higher than cities with galvanized iron or wrought iron pipes. Other causes of death were mostly unrelated. Only the murder rates changed1.”
http://learn.fi.edu/learn/brain/metals.html
“Low-income children are eight times more likely to be exposed to lead paint, and African-American children are five times more likely than Anglo children to suffer from lead poisoning.”
http://www.westonaprice.org/uncategorized/violent-behavior-a-solution-in-plain-sight/
“Heavy metal exposure compromises normal brain development and neurotransmitter function, leading to long-term deficits in learning and social behavior. Studies show that hyperactive children and criminal offenders have significantly elevated levels of lead, manganese or cadmium compared to controls; high blood lead at age seven predicts juvenile delinquency and adult crime.”
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/01/are-big-cities-more-dangerous-small-ones
“So where did we see the most exposure to gasoline lead? Answer: in places with the densest concentration of automobiles. And that’s in the inner core of big cities. In the early ’60s, big cities had double the ambient air lead levels of midsize cities, which in turn had air lead levels 40 percent higher than small cities. (Nevin, p. 316.) So if lead exposure produces a rise in crime, you’d expect to see a bigger rise in big cities than in small ones. Over time, big cities would become increasingly more dangerous than small ones.
“Likewise, when lead was removed from gasoline, and children started to grow up normally, you’d expect to see a bigger crime decrease in big cities. Over time, crime rates would start to converge.
“And that’s exactly what we see in the data.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_racism
“The study revealed, “ Three of the four commercial hazardous waste landfills in the Southeast United States were located in majority black communities.” The General Accounting Office Study, or GAO study, solely studied off-site hazardous waste landfills in the Southeastern United States limiting the scope of the study.[60] In response to this limitation the United Church of Christ Commission for Racial Justice, or CRJ, directed a comprehensive national study on demographic patterns associated with the location of hazardous waste sites.[60] The CRJ national study conducted two examinations of areas surrounding commercial hazardous waste facilities and the location of uncontrolled toxic waste sites.[60] The first study examined the association between race and socio-economic status and the location of commercial hazardous waste treatment, storage, and disposal facilities.[60] After statistical analysis, the first study concluded that “the percentage of community residents that belonged to a racial or ethnic group was a stronger predictor of the level of commercial hazardous waste activity than was household income, the value of the homes, the number of uncontrolled waste sites, or the estimated amount of hazardous wastes generated by industry”.[61] The second study examined the presence of uncontrolled toxic waste sites in ethnic and racial minority communities, and found that 3 out of every 5 African and Hispanic Americans lived in communities with uncontrolled waste sites.[62]
“Other studies like the 1987, “Toxic Waste and Race in the United States,” by the Commission for Racial Justice, found race to be the most influential variable in predicting where waste facilities were located.[63]”
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/02/red-barns-and-white-barns-why-rural-crime-skyrocketed-late-1800s
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/freddie-grays-life-a-study-in-the-sad-effects-of-lead-paint-on-poor-blacks/2015/04/29/0be898e6-eea8-11e4-8abc-d6aa3bad79dd_story.html
The average black person has an IQ of 85. The APA used to define an IQ of 85 as being retarded, but they had to rescind that for purposes of political correctness.
Criminality probably has a very high correlation with lower IQs, but again it would be politically incorrect to notice that, so we mustn’t.
This article is absolute rubbish, the FBI crime statistics for 2011-2013 suggest that for Murder and manslaughter, Rape, Robbery and Aggravated assault in the past 3 years 40.9% of these crimes have been committed by black offenders BUT 62.6% have been committed by white offenders which the article conveniently forgets to mention. Terrible attention to detail.
You do realize that can’t be the case since that adds up to 103.5%. And Hispanics are in the white category, so actual “whites” would be guilty far less than that figure shows. But the 40.9% of the crime by blacks is done by a race representing less than 17% of the population. Broken down further, blacks 18-30 are only 6% of the populace and are the group most likely to commit those crimes.
Look at the homicide rates they are higher. Regardless what puzzles me is that you completely ignore the fact that 40% of violent crimes are committed by Blacks yet they make up only 13% of the population. Whites make up around 60-65% so their stats make sense. The argument is about Police unfairly targeting Blacks. I would argue that police do in fact target each racial group according to the % of the crimes they commit.
Hispanics/Mexicans are included in the “white” category for govt crime stats. From what I read, lumping them together started back in the 30s. Have no clue as to why.
My guess is that were you to separate the two groups, Hispanics would take the lions share of the crime stats with them…leaving whites looking good in comparison to all other ethnic groups with the exception of Asians.
Any way you look at it, black crime is way out of proportion to black americans relative percentage of the population.
It also shows that White-on-White crime is still a problem.
@Shan –
“Hispanics/Mexicans are included in the “white” category for govt crime stats. From what I read, lumping them together started back in the 30s. Have no clue as to why.”
It depends on the source. Until recent history, Hispanics weren’t seen as a separate category from whites. It used to be more common to separate out other ethnic groups (such as Italian-Americans and Irish-Americans) than to separate out Hispanics.
“My guess is that were you to separate the two groups, Hispanics would take the lions share of the crime stats with them…leaving whites looking good in comparison to all other ethnic groups with the exception of Asians.”
You don’t need to guess. There is some data that does separate the two groups.
“Any way you look at it, black crime is way out of proportion to black americans relative percentage of the population.”
You are looking at rather limited data. Sure, if you cherrypick data, you can support all kinds of preconceived conclusions. I just wrote a fuller survey of the data:
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2015/08/24/on-racialization-of-crime-and-violence/
I’m old enough to remember the rampant racism of the 50’s and 60’s where whites were specifically going after blacks as they were seen as inferior, where lynchings were popular in the South, where they had to use separate rest rooms, where popular celebrates like Sammy Davis Jr had to use separate entrance where he would be entertaining, separate easting areas etc.
Basically keeping them out of jobs that would keep them out of poverty. If memory serves, there were few black on white crimes then. Yes, there were a few riots here and there when blacks got fed up. This is when the country wanted segregation and change was slow in coming.Eventually laws were enacted and people began to peacefully protest, all races supported equality riding buses for sit-ins, and marching with Martin Luther. Maybe the Blacks feel that not much have changed, although racism is somewhat more covert these days. Just look what Trump said about Obama being the last black president. That had nothing to do what he has or has not done as president. It’s because of his race and so is all the stuff that he has had to deal with during his presidency. Everything from being a closet Muslim to not being born in the U.S. There have been more treats to Obama than any other president.
Why this is happening now is up to sociologist and psychologist to figure out. Maybe because of the fact that blacks commit more crimes than whites when there are only 13-14 percent of Blacks living in the U.S. is known to police and they will likely look more closely to the Black population. There are a lot of people who are among the “47” percent as Romney put it, which in itself is a condemnation of this country when the middle class is disappearing and this country if fast becoming an aristocracy, but we are not seeing an increase in white crimes other than corporate shenanigans. Get rid of income inequity and perhaps things will get better when it is easier to put food on the table, get a car that isn’t 15 years old, and live in nice apartments that don’t cost more than $1000 (double that in New York City)
Your memory is somewhat selective. Most, the vast majority in fact, of black crime is directed towards other Blacks; the same goes for other races, We tend to victimize our own. The typical cross race crimes are burglary and robbery. The corner store, which use to be typically staffed by whites, is now more likely staffed by Asians and other recent immigrant groups.
Your memory of lynching in the south must go back a very long way. Definitions are important. Lynching has nothing to do with murdering a person by hanging them by their neck. Lynching is when someone has taken a person from lawful police custody. If you help your friend escape from the back of the police car, then you are guilty of lynching. What you remember is a number of people who were murdered by hanging by a bunch of racist thugs. They committed a murder, but not a lynching. The last lynching that occurred in America was in San Jose, Ca., when Thomas Thurmond and John Holmes were lynched from the custody of the Santa Clara County Sheriff (they were in jail) and murdered by hanging in St. James Square. This event occurred in 1934. The all three of the murder victims (Homes and Thurmond and the person they murdered) were white. I think you have to go back about 100 years to get a “lynching” in the south.
While we are discussing definitions it is important to understand who is classified as “white.” According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report the fellows who crashed into the World Trade Center were white. There is no classification in the UCR for Hispanic, Middle Eastern or mixed races. Everyone who is not Black, Asian or American Indian is classified as white. You are correct that Blacks compose about 13.5% of the population. But when we analyze who committing crime, we have to factor in that crime is primarily a young man’s vocation. So, really when we look at the murder statistics, we have to control for age and gender. The population that is committing these murders is really only those Black males between the ages of 14-30 or so. That proportion of the populations is only about 2% or so. (I don’t know the actually percentage.) How do we know that Blacks commit more crime? We look to the National Victimization Study which is administered by the Census Bureau. During this annual survey people who have been the victim of crimes are asked to describe the assailant. The NVS tracts the general UCR reporting. Blacks do commit more crime and “whites” not much. If we only counted crimes committed by European-Americans America would haver one of the lowest crimes rates in the world.
Back to your memory. The race riots of the last century. How many of them where in the South? None. The race riots were all in northern and western cities. Cities where segregation was never practiced.
We have spent billions of dollars to address black poverty and money has not seemed to make much of a difference. To be poor in America means free housing, free cellphones, now internet, free medical, free education. Not every body can be Bill Gates, but anybody who is physically able can succeed.
This is supposed to be a fact check? It only presented a very limited and cleverly biased position.
The very large majority of people charged with rape, assault, larceny, burglary, auto theft, arson, forgery, fraud, embezzlement, vandalism, weapons violations, drug abuse, DUIs, public drunkeness, and disorderly conduct are WHITE people.
…Yet, the media portrayal of what a criminal is is a BLACK or LATINO person. Follow the law and police won’t harass you right?
Don’t believe the stats – see the FBI’s own table. https://www.fbi.gov/…/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43
Some white people are living in denial, and their moral self-righteousness denies the reality of what is going on all over the world. Instead of facing the reality that blacks are suffering because of instutionalize racism, they turn their heads and say to themselves it’s no so. They say it’s all black people fault to feel better about themselves. They also say “black people need to work hard like the rest of us if they want to get ahead. Whites discriminate when black apply for jobs, I have witnessed this myself. In the days of slavery there were just as many white Christians as it is today who thought it was ok to have slaves. Not only did they have them they were very brutal and cruel to them. Do any of you so call white Christians think those thousands of white people back then were right and were do you think they will spend eternity for their evilness? Some “say I didn’t have anything to do with slavery”, but fail to realize they are reaping the benefits from slavery to this day. Some of you are suffering from a superiority complex and deny it because, you are asinine. They (some white people) have these child-like delusions of entitlement to see everyone as the mistake except themselves. When it comes to the admitting their sins they resort to lies and spew out kind nonsense when the facts dismantles their arguments. Their arguments aren’t built on factual research, but instead its reflected by ignorance, hate and arrogance. Claiming that another race is inferior to their own is good for their self esteem and they need these pointless forms rhetoric to balance their inner conflicting issues with GUILT. I have been in this world 70 years and witness a lot of evil done to whites, blacks and all groups of people. God knows it’s the truth, when I say no other group of people except the native Americans have been treated as cruel and brutal as blacks. It’s beyond me how anyone who know anything about God, can think that God will allow those who do these evil to go unpunished. By no means am I saying black people are angels, there’s good and bad in every ethnic group and those who sin will have to answer to God no matter who you are and what color you are. As a whole whites have committed more crimes against blacks it would take blacks 400 years to catch up. When I think of how black people have been treated and how they are treated to this day, it brings to mind this passage from the bible. Ps. Hear what the word of God is saying: Sin speaks to the wicked deep in their hearts; they reject God and do not have reverence for him. Because they think so highly of themselves, they think that God will not discover their sin and condemn it. Their speech is wicked and full of lies; they no longer do what is wise and good. They make evil plans as they lie in bed; nothing they do is good, and they never reject anything evil. The wicked plot against good people and glare at them with hate. But the Lord laughs at wicked people, because he knows they will soon be destroyed. The wicked draw their swords and bend their bows to kill the poor and needy, to slaughter those who do what is right; but they will be killed by their own swords, and their bows will be smashed. If you believe it or not, we will all have to stand before God in judgment. I’m so glad God is the final judge of who’s right and whose wrong and I wouldn’t want to be the socks in the shoes of those who are wrong and think they are right.
revelationbook,
I would guess your: “some white people still living in denial” are those like myself that simply don’t feel any sense of guilt, or responsibility -none whatsoever, for what happened to your ancestors at the hands of my ancestors over the past 400 years. Sorry, it isn’t going to happen. No more guilt from me. Tried the guilt thing, along with the rest of the whites, starting back in the late 50s, and all it got me was a “black lives matter” tee-shirt. :)
Nor will I teach my kids and grandkids that they “owe” your kids and grandkids any special treatment, or guilt feelings for what happened in another day, another age. I guess that is what you want right…perpetual guilt from us? Passed on from generation to generation? My off-spring feeling debt owed to your off-spring?
Must be because that is all I ever hear from the black community anymore…with a few notable exceptions whom are promptly labeled “Uncle Toms”. To what end (will there ever be an end?) I have no idea. Maybe to keep the government entitlements flowing? You know; those welfare “benefits” that probably, IMO, had more to do with wrecking your black family structure, and communities than anything that happened the past 400 years? Or perhaps to keep the well entrenched “race industry”, and race hustlers in business?
You are obviously a man of God. May I suggest you let God sort this out once we are at the Pearly Gates? You even said yourself he would do exactly that. My guess is that those white slave traders and owners you are so angry about have already been dealt their punishment. By the way, if you have read all the posts here, you would see that among’st the sinners -purveyors of slavery and suppression, would be many of your own as Africans have a strong history of enslaving themselves and others too. So do Arabs. Still doing it today!…so are you going to take your guilt campaign, anger, and hope of retribution overseas too?
One thing I feel pretty certain of though; is that God is not going to punish those whites like myself who refuse to feel guilt as you demand we should. He’s got daily atrocities, and he is going to send me to hell for that? LOLs. Nor will he be angry at me, I hope, because I think this “institutional racism” thing..the latest outrage du jour you and self loathing white liberals harp on, is a bunch of baloney.
Judging by what I hear around me, this is the end of the road for the guilt trips. No more.
Actually, I don’t think this analysis establishes much at all other than whites and blacks commit homicide in about the same percentages. a 7% difference isn’t that wide a margin to me. And your 2013 statistics are inconclusive because the race of 29% of the offenders was unknown. That is a huge flaw. There are some numbers that are consistent at about a 7% difference. I suppose you could reach the same conclusion because if 28% of the population is black and 52% of them are committing homicide then 45% of whites doing the same thing is more people but not as a percentage of their population segment because the pool is larger and thus diluted whereas it isn’t in the black numbers. So 1 of every 2 blacks commit homicide and less than 1 of every 2 whites do.
B.D. – Good point you make about the data. Actually, the point could be made even stronger, as the crime data is about arrests and convictions, not total crimes committed. Racism based on such data is weak sauce. But no one ever said racism was rational.
You almost got a fact right…Fact Check. Black men are half of the population of black people, yet black men commit almost all “black” murders. Trying to dilute the numbers by hiding black murders in the general population of blacks IS the kind of stunt you, at Fact Check, should be exposing, rather than perpetrating.
Statistics obfuscate the fundamental cause of most violence which is depravity; not one’s race or socioeconomic status. There is no portion of humanity that is immune to depravity. Does money cure depravity? Does power or priviledge? Does education? Does having a job? Does belinging to a religious organization? Does health? Does pride? There are plenty of examples that demonstrate that none of these things guarantees absence of depravity or violence in individuals or groups of any kind. If we want to make a true difference in the world we need to start by addressing our own depravity and by humbly loving and caring for our neighbors no matter their circumstances in life.
The problem and challenge is we live in a society where depravity is systemic and institutionalized. Our society is built on and dependent on depravity, at least in its present form. To seek the end of depravity would be a revolutionary act.
As a White American living and working as a business start-up in Asia, I would like to apologize for the cluelessness of my fellow Whites, represented in many comments here.
Unfortunately, this kind of lower form of White person is giving our race a bad name. People in Asia are thinking we are all this dumb and it is hurting our “brand”.
Please, clueless racists, read, think, communicate with normal people or just shut up.
The dysfunction in urban communities is less related to slavery and more connected to southern racism and Jim Crow policies that existed in this country up until the late 60s. Many blacks migrated to major cities over a period of several decades to escape racism in the south and search for work. When they arrived in these cities they discovered that there were restrictions on where they could live, mainly in the form of housing covenants. They also discovered that the jobs they hoped for either did not exist or dissipated (particularly factory jobs). Most of the people who migrated were not educated and lacked job skills. These ghettos and urban housing projects became toxic environments. With no work, little education and a feeling of hopelessness these environments became toxic. The lucky and talented moved out. Yes we have a problem in this country and it is a direct result of our racial past and present day attitudes. We all own this because impacts us all. Its easy to say Whites are holding Blacks down or Blacks are animals with a propensity for crime but the truth is that the dysfunctional past of this country has created this situation and we all have to deal with it.
If poverty is a driver of crime, why does the government continue to cultivate poverty by subsidizing those who refuse to work? Stop making excuses for people who make bad choices in life. Look at Dr. Ben Carson. He was raised in poverty, but he applied good ethics and morals to his life and became immensely successful. We can’t all become as successful as Dr. Carson, but we sure as heck can strive to not be impoverished, which is the driver of crime.
If poverty is a driver of crime, why does the government continue to cultivate poverty by subsidizing those who refuse to work? Stop making excuses for people who make bad choices in life. Look at Dr. Ben Carson. He was raised in poverty, but he applied good ethics and morals to his life and became immensely successful. We can’t all become as successful as Dr. Carson, but we sure as heck can strive to avoid impoverishment, the state of which being a driver of crime.
@ Idle Clair – If you want to make an intelligent comment, why don’t you inform yourself first. There is a ton of data and research out there related to everything you said. You don’t have to limit yourself to mere opinionating.
Studies have shown the causal impact of poverty on numerous problems, especially in terms of inequality, economic segregation, and severity of poverty. This is already proven. There is nothing to be debated, but we could have an intelligent discussion about what it all specifically means and what we could do about it.
Anyway, it’s not as if poverty is just a black issue. All the same problems found with poor blacks is also found with poor whites. Few poor whites, like few poor blacks, ever escape poverty. That is because economic mobility in the US has decreased in recent history and is now lower than many other developed countries, specifically Western countries.
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/11/18/facing-shared-trauma-and-seeking-hope/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/11/28/structural-racism-and-personal-responsibility/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/08/31/the-myth-of-weak-and-broken-black-families/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/11/18/black-families-broken-and-weak/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/working-hard-but-for-what/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/whose-work-counts-who-gets-counted/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/racism-without-racists-victimization-silence/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/white-violence-white-data/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2015/08/24/on-racialization-of-crime-and-violence/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2015/01/19/the-desperate-acting-desperately/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2015/07/12/are-white-appalachians-a-special-case/
https://benjamindavidsteele.wordpress.com/2015/07/13/opportunity-precedes-achievement-good-timing-also-helps/
I love the “we are stuck in poor neighborhoods” excuse. Fine, I’ll admit, those poor black neighborhoods suck. But did you ever consider leaving? It’s legal in every state. 500,000 Syrians are WALKING across multiple countries so they can have a safer place to live with JOB opportunities and you can’t call up your cousin pookie to help you move? Really?
And as far as the slavery and all that goes, guess what, you were the conquered people. You weren’t the only ones in history. Move on because it’s getting to be a tired excuse. And you are aware slavers weren’t over there with nets right? Like a fat European can run down a healthy African tribesman? We just bought the losing tribesman from the winning tribesman.
Somewhere in any groups history is a time when they were the conquered people, we all got past it, grow up and do the same.
BTW many blacks have been leaving poor neighborhoods. But it doesn’t change the racism. It’s not as if cops, judges, and employers are only racist in poor neighborhoods.
Anyway, why don’t you suggest that poor white people leave poor white neighborhoods. There are more poor whites than poor blacks, more white welfare recipients than black. And studies have shown that poor whites in poor neighborhoods, that is to say when economic factors are controlled for, the rates of unemployment and crime are about the same.
Those poor whites are in many cases the descendants of various conquered people. They were either sent to the US as indentured servants or were escaping those who had taken over their homelands. Others were border people who had no clear nationality and were escaping the violence of governments on all sides. This includes not just the Irish, but also the Scots-Irish, the Scottish, Palatine Germans, etc.
The poorest neighborhoods, communities, and regions of the entire country include the populations who descend from these conquered people. According to your ideology, if you were to be fair and not racist, you’d have to argue that the majority of poor people who are whites have refused to move on, get past it, and grow up. I guess we should round up all those pathetic irresponsible poor white people and send them back to where they came from.
Only one group of 15% committing 50% of homicides are complaining about how they got here and how being in poor neighborhoods made them do it.
@J J H –
Let me make another thing clear about the data. You are making a common mistake.
The percentage of blacks committing a crime every year, especially in terms of violent crimes, is only a fraction of a percentage of the black population. The vast majority of blacks are law-abiding and hardworking American citizens, just like everyone else.
Plus, most of the black crime is concentrated in the poorest black communities. There are plenty of blacks living in non-violent neighborhoods, communities, and rural areas. In fact, earlier last century, ethnic whites in many cities were committing more violent crime than blacks. And before that in one study done on rural Louisiana, black violent crime was almost non-existent, despite the rural whites in the area being extremely violent.
Conditions are always changing. And populations do indeed move over time. The reason many blacks are in poor urban areas now is because they were escaping the violence of whites elsewhere, either in terms of Southern Jim Crow or Northern sundown towns and Second Klan, and in both cases white mob violence and lynchings all around.
The history and ongoing reality of racist prejudice, violence, and oppression isn’t to say all whites are bad anymore than a small fraction of poor blacks in the poorest communities means all blacks are bad.
Why wasn’t my other comment approved? I realize that I was mocking the racist. But my point was that the racist I was mocking was mocking blacks. Why is mocking blacks acceptable in the comments section but not mocking the racists mocking blacks? That sounds like a double standard, based on the perceived race of the target of mockery.
Because we are all racists seeking to keep the black man down. Honestly I do not run this site. If I did, I would approve every comment because everyone should have the grounds to voice their opinions regardless of whether I agree with them.
Let me make my point without mockery, no matter how well deserved.
@J J H –
It is true many poor blacks haven’t left poor neighborhoods. It is also true that many have left poor neighborhoods and still experience the combined problems of racism and economic disadvantage.
As far as that goes, there are many poor whites who remain not just in poor white neighborhoods, but entire poor white communities and areas. There are large parts of the country filled with poor people of every race and ethnicity. They choose to stay for various reasons, even as others leave.
That happened with my family and it worked for them. They were able to escape poverty. But it doesn’t always work out. Is it better to move away from poverty only to find yourself then still poor but also isolated?
Here is another thing to be asked: Which is worse—poor minorities who choose to remain close to their homes, their families, their communities, and their churches because that is what they know or the racist who chooses to be racist because it is all he has known from his own upbringing or from the society around him? Why should poor people give up the only security they have in the world, their social ties and their roots in a sense of place, or else be judged by racists?
These people never chose poverty, anyhow. Most blacks didn’t choose to be born where they are and most of the ancestors of blacks didn’t choose to move here. They didn’t choose to be enslaved or born into slavery or, for later blacks, to have enforced upon them Jim Crow, sundown towns, redlining, the KKK, ghettoization policies, racialized policing, and on and on.
They are making do with the situation they were born into, what they didn’t choose. Their choices within that context are limited. But for many of them their social ties and sense of home is everything they have in the world. Do you want to take that away from them as well and leave them with nothing?
Second time I was censored…screw this. Out of here. Bye bye Chan 4.
Top five cities in the United States with the highest murder rates:
5-Saginaw, MI (46.1 percent black)
4- Chester, PA (74.7 percent black)
3- Gary, IN (84.8 percent black)
2- Camden, NJ (48.1 percent black)
1- East St. Louis, IL (98 percent black)
Blacks make up 12.6 percent of the country
Those demographics are from the year 2010, and this is all I need to say
@Rob – What you say depends on what you know. You obviously don’t know much and so it is unsurprising that is all you say.
The cities you list probably also have among the highest rates of racial oppression, racially biased policing, racially biased employment, racial economic and housing segregation, and history of racism. I notice that the cities you listed there, for example, are in areas where there was Klan activity, sundown towns, redlining, etc.
What you said is all you need to say to demonstrate that you are a racist. If that was your purpose, mission accomplished!
Im white. America forgets what we did to blacks. They was slaves. They tried to run the got beat. Then there was KKK killing them… Don’t blame the black man !! America is at fault !!
There is no disputing that blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime in this country. You can argue that it is due to poverty. But then the question begs to be asked, why are blacks always the most impoverished every where?
In Europe, where slavery was abolished longer than the U.S., and where racial prejudice is not nearly as evident, the same statistics prevail. Blacks commit more crimes per capita.
Then look at the entire continent of Africa, where there certainly are not racial prejudices. In an continent populated and governed by blacks, abject poverty and crime are the norm.
No matter where you look in the globe, blacks are always the most impoverished and violent race. We need to find an answer to that.
@Bang – You could always inform yourself about history. Just a suggestion.
European imperialism, colonialism, slavery, genocide, resource exploitation, etc went far beyond just North America. The same former colonized countries are still being attacked and suppressed by European governments and militaries.
The colonial economies and forms of power never really ended. In some cases, European governments just overthrew or helped assassinate democratically elected leaders, put puppet dictators and banana republics into power, and supported all kinds of right-wing oppressive states, from fascism to theocracy.
Your accusations are like asking why children that are regularly beaten have lower IQs and more behavioral problems. Then implying that they get beaten because they have lower IQs and more behavioral problems. That still doesn’t explain or justify the beatings themselves, especially when it is shown that it is part of a systemic problem far beyond any individual child.
Your argument is morally corrupt and depraved.
European imperialism in South Africa, while, yes, it did segregate blacks and whites and deemed blacks as a lesser race, also advanced black populations in ways that they had never done on their own. Prior to the colonisation the black populations had not advanced beyond hunter/gatherers and some subsistence farming while living in mud huts whilst all throughout Europe and Asia great and wondrous civilisations were being built. Under white minority rule the South African economy and infrastructure and black education, etc thrived. After the black majority took over, all of these things have been on the decline. Label the whites as “racist” if you will, but even living in the comparatively poor conditions in comparison to white communities is still an improvement over what black populations ever did for themselves. It is a fair enough question, and I would like to see an answer to it, if white people are so “racist” and so bad and so “oppressive” then why do black populations follow them wherever they go? Why? It defies logic. It would seem as if black people are overall unwilling or unable to do for themselves and seek to leech onto white society for their betterment. Why does black society seem to need white society so much? It is exclusively white majority countries allowing black African immigration or providing charity to impoverished black African nations. Black populations are not going to get sympathy from Asians (Chinese or Japanese or Koreans). The level of world aid given by white majority countries is completely unprecedented from any other race. White nations overwhelmingly seek the betterment of other races. Asians (used to be Orientals) are a world majority and only provide aid to other Asian populations. It is only white society that has sought out or even cared about the betterment of black society.
I would be willing to do an experiment, and I would be willing to participate. I just do not think everyone else would. I think we should let all the black Africans move in and have Europe as so many seek to do anyway, and then all white Europeans move down to South Africa which NO ONE is seeking to do. My hypothesis is that in a generation or two at most, the black population will be seeking to move back to South Africa due to the Europeans efforts
That’s a simple answer to that question. Blacks are impoverished in all nations according to The book of DEUTERONOMY 28, all you have to do is read it to understand why we suffer so much.
“The Catholic Church in France and many of its members opposed the Huguenots. Some Huguenot preachers and congregants were attacked as they attempted to meet for worship.[19] The height of this persecution was the St. Bartholomew’s Day massacre when 5,000 to 30,000 were killed, although there were also underlying political reasons for this as well, as some of the Huguenots were nobles trying to establish separate centers of power in southern France. Retaliating against the French Catholics, the Huguenots had their own militia.[20]
Following the accidental death of Henry II in 1559, his son succeeded as King Francis II along with his wife, the Queen Consort, also known as Mary Queen of Scots. During the eighteen months of the reign of Francis II, Mary encouraged a policy of rounding up French Huguenots on charges of heresy, in front of Catholic judges, and employing torture and burning as punishments for dissenters. Mary returned to Scotland a widow, in the summer of 1561.[24]”
My ancestors were tortured, driven out of their home and forced to relocate. Do I hate catholics or the French in general? Hatred is to strong, maybe I carry distate, but my family found their new life, made the best of it. None of use were rich on the new world, most of us were public servants. Few, if any, were crimnals. I don’t pretend to know what another cultural group goes through but I know we’re are all responsible for our own actions, and if we screw up we are to blame. Maybe that was instilled in my Calvinistic ancestors. Certainly they respected law. No one is a born criminal.
The black animal is a very dangerous animal due to its genetic traits. Its no secret they are the missing link. Their ancestors were here for over 8 million years. The movie series, Planet of the Apes was making a statement about them. They knew how to construct crude tools for hunting and more importantly removing flesh from bones. The reason for their affinity for knives. They still haven’t thanked us whites for bringing them here on their pleasure cruise to America. The worst thing we did was put them to work in the fields. The last thing they want to have to do is work, when its so easy to live off welfare and the taxes of hardworking whites. Look up what percentage of inventions were made by blacks. Not many. We taught them how to play basketball and football. Look at them now. Multimillionaires. Still not satisfied. Because they are such an aggressive animal they excel at these sports. Especially boxing.By bringing them here on the slave ships, we advanced their “culture” while we greatly damaged ours. Now we have also brought AIDS here through them and thanks to white women with low self-esteem issues, producing half-breed animal children.One more thing. Thanks to foolish liberal whites, we’ve had 8 years of Obama. 14% of America is black. They alone did not win him the election. He serves his Jewish Socialist masters. What do you think of that you black animals and liberal white faggot-devils.
@Kevin – I realize that your either a troll or a bigot, and not even particularly entertaining at that. There isn’t much point in interacting with you, but I can’t help responding. I’m a glutton for punishment.
“The black animal is a very dangerous animal due to its genetic traits. Its no secret they are the missing link.”
You obviously aren’t the sharpest tool in the toolbox.
“Their ancestors were here for over 8 million years.”
Did you know that your ancestors were also here for the same length of time as the ancestors of Africans and African-Americans? Guess what? You basically have the same ancestors as every other human on the planet.
“The last thing they want to have to do is work, when its so easy to live off welfare and the taxes of hardworking whites. Look up what percentage of inventions were made by blacks. Not many.”
Considering slavery, most American whites don’t even know what real work was like for so many centuries of African-Americans. As for inventions by race, that is irrelevant since race is a social construct, which is to say it only exists in the imagination.
“We taught them how to play basketball and football. Look at them now. Multimillionaires.”
Many plantation owners brought slaves over because Africans had practical knowledge that aristocrats lacked. West Africans had complex rice-growing cultures which requires immense knowledge and social organizing. West Africans also had many other professional skills such education, literacy, being multilingual, blacksmithing, weaving, masonry, etc. West Africa at the time was a well established society with countries that had central governments, official currencies, schools, road systems, and trade routes.
“14% of America is black.”
It is more complicated than that. In the United States: 20% of ‘blacks’ have more European than African genetics. 5% of ‘blacks’ have no detectable African genetics whatsoever. There are actually more ‘whites’ than ‘blacks’ with African genetics, because of centuries of mixing and passing. By the way, much of that was from men of European ancestry impregnating women of African ancestry, not “thanks to white women with low self-esteem issues.”
Hi all.
You bring genetic and it is not accepted as being a possible line to track the problem. If we look at the entire continent of Africa,” please note that they don’t strive much their neither” many of the countries in Africa don’t have the white to put them down and to blame for their situations. Most of the time it is their own black leaders that make them miserable. And please remember that the ones that sold black to the whites in Africa where the black them selfs.
In the past, the black American community have worked so hard to bring their own people to where the white would accept them.The generations of your black ancestors would be put to shame to see what you did of their work and efforts. Throwing all this good work to trash and versing in the Hip Hop culture.
This is one of the black weakness. As soon as something seems fun and not asking to much effort…blacks fall for it. Selling drugs, pimping, steeling and for some reason, more black will verse toward this.
I am in Canada and we have the same problem with black crime rising and making our cities less safe. They often left very, very poor countries and came in Canada where opportunities are just some of the best in the world and a good number of them prefer going with the street gangs and the drug dealers. It sure looks cool and brings the money very easely…No work to do really and all kinds of fame…. if you listen to Hip Hop culture anyways. Everyone that I have talked to around me here in Canada, will tell you that about 80% of the time, the black that works with you will, be late at work, some days not even come to work, argue with the authorities and work less, slower then his coworkers, steel from the company and colleague.
Black are awesome at sport, music, dance and sex. But when it comes to make sense and work their living, keep their family and kids in the right place in society, they just can’t handle it. I also lived in a Black country and there was the problem by the square. A beautiful country and only about 10 to 20% of the people living there were doing serious work. most of them prefer to clinch to a simple and undemanding life style and were offering very little effort to elevate their situation.. Oh yes, it was because of the hot weather or the work was not gratifying or they wanted the boss’s job…nothing less. and of course the white had all good situations. Yes, we were positively minded and would be ready to do anything to climb and do better every day. One day my black friend with whom I used to live, was all upset to see my salary compared to his. Imagine, I was managing twenty divers every day, collect their money, manage a schedule and would train them in the pool and bring them to sea in a bus the next day for diving and keeping them all save and sound. Him, he had the wind surf shack next to our dive shop an had to have an helper to bring the boards to the water and to bring him the credit card pad to his lawn chair, and have client to come to him to sign it without having to stand up from his chair. All this probably once or twice a day. He eventually married a girl from Switserland that took him out of the country which he divorced six month later and asked for a passport and visa to move to USA from where he called me once and was so proud to tel me that he was now living in New York.Oh yes, where in New York.. in the Bronks! Yeh! Right!
I don’t think that black are bad or have less possibilities in life. In fact it is up to them to make a decision and make their life better. They will need to find new values. They are all welcome to work by our side as long as they follow and make what is needed to sustain our life style they want so much, because, they all want a life style too! when they stop working, we all have to make for the difference. Also, a cup that spend his time fearing for his life fighting mostly against black criminal will have more tendencies to fear other black people, willing or not to admit it. Some of you that get arrested and wonder why and call this profiling, ask yourself the question. You are the ones doing the profiling you are making you self seen as a danger to the rest of society.
Remember, we are not better we are not worst, but different. Definitely!
@John –
“many of the countries in Africa don’t have the white to put them down and to blame for their situations. ”
You could always embrace knowledge instead of ignorance.
Many African governments are post-colonial. Some former colonies only became independent in recent decades. Sheesh! Give them a chance. After generations or even centuries of oppression, don’t you think that it might take more than a few decades to get past the mass destruction forced upon their societies?
Besides, in many cases, the former colonial governments and their allies continue to meddle in these countries, such as supporting oppressive regimes and using cover operations to destabilize entire regions.
“This is one of the black weakness. As soon as something seems fun and not asking to much effort…blacks fall for it. Selling drugs, pimping, steeling and for some reason, more black will verse toward this.”
This is where knowledge would serve you better than ignorance. Whites do many of these things at equal or higher rates than blacks. For example, whites use drugs at about equal rates as blacks, while whites carry and sell drugs at higher rates than blacks. Yet blacks get imprisoned more even for crimes that whites commit more often.
“I don’t think that black are bad or have less possibilities in life. In fact it is up to them to make a decision and make their life better.”
How do blacks make better decisions about systemic and institutional racism in every aspect of our society? Once again, I might suggest knowledge over ignorance. These racial biases have been shown to exist for decades in thousands of studies and sets of data. There is no rational or moral way to blame blacks for this state of affairs, not that rationality or morality has much to do with your argument.
Blacks didn’t sell other blacks into slavery dummy. Africans sold Black Israelites to white folk. Read your bible instead of that so-called American History you were taught.
You believe the fairy tale known as the bible and call someone else stupid? That’s the pot calling the kettle….well you know. The bible is not to be taken literally. It has been rewritten more times than you will ever know On top
Of that it was only a verbal record for generations by those who were unable to read or write. That which can be proven wrong, has been proven wrong.
I believe you all seem to forget about other countries. The fact is, in every single country where there are black people, they commit crimes at a higher rate than the other races. Ive checked 7 countries so far.
A couple of years ago I read a fascinating book by Theodore Dalrymple, a British psychiatrist whose patients were poor, many were criminals, and most or all were white. Title: “Life at the Bottom: The Worldview That Makes the Underclass”. Here’s a bit of the blurb on the book over at Amazon:
“Here is a searing account-probably the best yet published-of life in the underclass and why it persists as it does. Theodore Dalrymple, a British psychiatrist who treats the poor in a slum hospital and a prison in England, has seemingly seen it all. Yet in listening to and observing his patients, he is continually astonished by the latest twist of depravity that exceeds even his own considerable experience.
“Dalrymple’s key insight in Life at the Bottom is that long-term poverty is caused not by economics but by a dysfunctional set of values, one that is continually reinforced by an elite culture searching for victims. This culture persuades those at the bottom that they have no responsibility for their actions and are not the molders of their own lives.”
One can extrapolate on this to suggest that perhaps the reason those minority groups who start out facing prejudice and poverty, but who rose fairly rapidly to middle class level or higher (Asians, Jews, etc.) are the ones that demagogues didn’t see fit to patronize and use as political fodder. They were left to battle it out against prejudice for themselves, rely on – and build – their own strength and character. They did not pity themselves and were not encouraged to do so by outsiders. But blacks’ slave history is the perfect grievance magnet to attract political exploiters that play on victimhood. And there’s been plenty of that in the past half-century or so.
Thomas Sowell also identifies grievance-mongering as a major contributor to the development of harmful attitudes that lead to black poverty in the US.
But, as noted, Theodore Dalrymple found the same dysfunctional attitudes among the poor white population he served in Britain.
The judicial system has to be blind to any factor(s) except those directly related to the crime. I believe an individual who commits a crime should understand that if you break the rules of society you should be expected to pay for those crimes regardless of who you are or where you come from. Poverty is not an excuse for leading a dishonorable life nor is it an impediment for living an honorable life.
Of course it is no surprise that black males commit most of the murders and rapes in this country. One only needs to watch the daily news. Sympathy for these perpetrators is not warranted. They should be punished and punished severely as anyone of any race should be. How do you. Change this? May not be able to… Blacks may have a hereditary instinct to be violent. One only need look at a typical black protest which quickly turns violent and into a shopping spree destroying and robbing business’s in the area. The statistics of violent crimes against women by black males is the most alarming to me. Certainly a better economy and more jobs and consequently less welfare would help. But blacks will always be the top perpetrators of crime in this country and the president letting them out of prison early will only boost the statistics and therefore the violent crimes and attacks against women.
Shan, please come back. After reading this blog from front to back, you’re the most credible voice of reason, purveyor of facts, and advocate for sensible conclusions. It’s almost 1AM in the morning and I’ve grown tired of the pseudo-intellectual drivel of BS (I’ll let you choose whether I’m referencing his initials or the content of his rantings).
I’m listing below just a few of your nuggets that glaringly rose above his feeble claims to “factual” supremacy. The man obviously limited his sources to opinions aligned with his. You proved that by calling his bluff and by having read his selective material. Can’t blame him though. I do the same thing. But when the debate deserves objectivity, I broaden the intake from merely opinions to include indisputable facts and solid reasoning, as you did.
Shan, thank you for restoring my faith in humanity. As I watch our country crumble and as I gag at the litany of excuses for behavior that’s leading to its demise, I’m encouraged that souls like you exist. Please continue to use your voice, while you still can.
A breath of fresh sanity from Shan,
“Where does that take us in your opinion (Steele’s)? Do we accept this criminal behavior because of slavery? Condone flash mobs, rioting, murders, rapes? If so, how many more years do we accept this crime to atone for our white ancestors…in other words, is there a time limit at the end of which blacks can no longer blame whites?
That said, may I ask you how we whites respond, or better said…how you think we respond, to other whites whom are caught violating the law?
Do we condone? Excuse? Justify? Riot when our fellow criminal whites are arrested?…Or manhandled during arrest? Die in custody? Blame the cops -and not the serial killer they are arresting who just cut up 10 innocent whites, for having no other choice but to respond aggressively, forcefully even, because this white was resisting arrest ? Hey, maybe he wasn’t resisting at all.
Do we whites protest that the criminal justice system has too many white perverts, mass murderers in jail? Harass cops as they go about their duties in our neighborhoods in response? Video, hit, spit at, or overall interfering with cops trying to arrest someone who is a threat to other whites?”
No matter where in the world you go, blacks are committing the majority of crime and violence. Why? NZ has about the same statistics as y’all. Blacks make 15% of our population yet commit the vast majority of our crime. Top all our statistic in child abuse and domestic violence etc
Again I ask. Why!
Art,
Thank you, and may I add that you also make some good points. I see you are careful in not naming Benjamin in your post, as you seem to realize it was my doing so that led to the two censored posts which forced my leaving. The moderator seems to be protecting him for some reason. Don’t know why as nothing bad was said, other than pointing out his (Bens) irritating habit of admonishing those whose opinions differ from his, and then offering salvation by directing them…so as to “become educated on the subject”, to his own heavily biased opinions/musings/writings on racial topics. Funny actually.
Too bad the censorship here and our society in general. After decades of this PC one way dialogue on issues of race, trillions of dollars thrown at the problem with little, if anything -BLMs say it is actually worse, to show for the effort, I think a no-holds-barred, yet respectful conversation may be the best way to move forward.
If this passes moderation, I will participate again. It was kind of fun. Again, thanks for the kudos.
This article is ridiculous. No doubt written by some plum-mouthed British lefty who’s led a sheltered life. Try living anywhere with a large ghetto black population for 25 years and revisit your analysis. Racist arrest rates? The cops in America aren’t racist, they simply concentrate their policing efforts in the neighborhoods with the most crime. Those neighborhoods are in the vast majority of cases, black. African Americans are 7 times as likely as whites to be convicted of murder. In case you’re tempted to dismiss this as a consequence of a racist criminal justice system, then consider this: African Americans are 6 times as likely as whites to BE murdered. What racist system could you blame this stat on? It’s just a straightforward count of murder victims without any kind of judgment involved.
I’ve lived in NYC for most of my life and follow the local news every day. Even though it’s a lot better these days than it was in the 80’s and 90’s, black on black violence is still out of control in the ghetto. If you’re British then I’m sorry, you have no first hand experience of how bad it is. They kill each other over nothing. Parking spaces, $1 dice games, borrowed Playstations, brushed shoulders in the street, rap lyrics, wearing the wrong colored shoe laces on the wrong block, being thrown out of a party, looking at someone’s girl in a club. I’ve seen and heard it all. That’s not to mention all of the toddlers and children who get shot dead by stray bullets when rival gangs shoot it out in the street, often in playgrounds packed with kids. Any attempt to downplay or rationalize the black murder rate in America with a load of left wing BS about racism is quite simply intellectual dishonesty.
When you are looking at U.S. crime statistics please keep in mind how the Uniform Crime Report compiled by the FBI defines white. All the Twin Towers terrorist are classified as “white”; members of the MS 13 central American gang are classified as “white.”
Blacks males commit more crime, both property and violent.
Alan,
That is correct, as other posters have mentioned. However, some here, along with others throughout our society, just won’t accept, or acknowledge, this as fact. In today’s hyper PC climate though, we non-blacks aren’t supposed to press the issue. If that is what they want to believe, and they say it with enough force, well by golly then “whites” in the FBI crime stats are ONLY European descent white. Get it? Or at least that is how I think it goes…LOLs.
Facts are now “sort of facts” (some might even call it propaganda), and what the black minority define them as; i.e. Cops are “slaughtering” black males, Michael Brown had his hands up…fine young man too, getting ready to go to college :) , pervasive institutional racism, white privilege and lots of etc’s I could add to the list.
Bad thing if you ask me. The only way out of this racial crisis IMO, is a frank discussion of the facts. The real facts, not those made up ones. I would hope the black community would agree? Would hope they could handle the facts, and if necessary adjust to those facts?
I have seen some encouraging signs from African-american “talking heads”, columnists, radio hosts, but they are the “minority”…reviled even as “Uncle Toms”, within black society. We can only hope that will change one day.
The problem in society is that people seem not to take responsibility for who they are and what they do. I am not black, but if I were I wouldn’t care what white people are doing. All based on science, blacks were the first people on the planet, whites would not exist if not for blacks, and genetically blacks are superior.
Now let’s say that for examples sake, that whites committed 98% of violent crimes and blacks only committed 2%, if you come to me and I am in the black community, and you say you know, blacks commit 2% of the violent crime, my response should not be, well the white man commits 98%. My response should be, we will try to lower that 2% to 1% and 0% if possible. Meaning we take care of our team. We don’t care what the white team is doing.
We want to better our communities, so we don’t use the comparing to make excuses as to why we are not bettering ourselves. If topic A is presented we don’t add topic B and C to the conversation so as to compare and ignore the ramifications of topic A, simply because topic’s B and C are worse than topic A.
If we want to resolve our issues, and our can mean anyone. We need to deal with that topic, regardless of what others maybe doing. So if my child comes to me after doing something wrong, my child cannot use the excuse well the neighbor is doing it to. I don’t care what the neighbor is doing, I care about what you are doing, and what you are doing is wrong and we need to fix that.
Can’t we all just forget race and get along and love each other? I love everyone! People should be more like me! The world would be such an infinitely better place.
We should encourage people to help themselves. And offer help to people that need it whether it be help from the government, community, etc. Give people a chance to better themselves. What we should not do is continue to help people who time and time again do not care about helping themselves and continue to blame everyone else for their situation. This would be the same for everyone. So if you are really tired of living in bad situations do something about it. Its not easy but it can be done. If you’re living in a bad run down area organize a clean up and maybe paint a few buildings, get the grass cut, pick up trash, etc. I know this sounds petty but if others see you are taking a proactive approach to changing your situation it will start to help other people realize that change can happen. You will be surprise at what effort can do.
There are many pre-disposed factors to determine the likelihood of young black men in America and or cultural groups or sub cultures to demonstrate anti-social behavior that is counterproductive to their wellbeing and the seemingly appearance of a high tolerance towards lawlessness , crime and mobocracy in respect to a perceived injustice in inequalities.
The following factors are not all inclusive but demonstrates the moral corruption and decay that has profoundly affected this sub culture .The facts are undeniable just as the past is documented and we as a nation must realize that we are our brother keepers, we can only legislate behavior not morality; the chooses we all make affects not only ourselves but some else as well. The urgency to fix this dilemma has eluded us and a sacrifice must be made in order to correct this scourge. This is the direct result of willful neglectfully indifferences towards one another, the disintegration of the family and the community in general has communicated this through the encroachment and intolerances of conservative concepts and self-restraints ; this alone are not the factors that is the cause and effect of this infection .
To eradicate this; it must be systematically defused by the infusion of economic investments in our industries and infrastructure; to do this we must empower our young people with the knowledge that drives industries not ideological theories. This type of movement is revolutionary not revisionary. We should consider reinvention and intervention starting with a nostalgic propaganda campaign, promoting civic involvement and mandatory volunteerism or verifiable service to develop social skill sets waging a war on stagnations, sedentary behavior patterns or burdensome slothfulness. Replace welfare; because welfare equals wages which it should equals work.
A productive citizen has generally developed enough discipline to stay the course and over time would develop ties to his community due to his investment and ownership in his community this is not theoretical, the methodology behind this is historical. The alternative is swelling cancerous prison systems state welfare systems that is engorged with dysfunctional disengaged victims and predators wounded and or self-inflicted with mental disorders, personalities maladjustments all or in part unable or unwilling to function in our society.
David,
Well said! The only thing I would take exception with is your comment: “the disintegration of the family and the community in general has communicated this through the encroachment and intolerances of conservative concepts and self-restraints”. My experience tells me it is the abandoning of conservative principals, not the “encroachment of”, which lead to an erosion of personal, and community self restraint, that has contributed greatly to the problem.
Nonetheless, your points, and intent, are well taken. May I add though, that all your suggested remedies, while well meaning, have been tried at one time or another, going back to the mid- 1960’s. Federal, State, and Cities all have invested huge amounts of resources in the way of programs and incentives to address the inner-cities problems…none of which have worked.
On the private level, there are many religious organizations with outreach efforts to “lend a hand” to inner-city residents. Habitat for Humanity, food kitchens, foster parent programs, education (reading) assistance programs, etc. Volunteering for these efforts are almost solely whites, who only want to help others. Again, unfortunately, the black societal problems persist and racial relations are the worse in decades….so citizen efforts aren’t working any better than government.
Which brings up the old adage: “If you find yourself in a hole, then stop digging”. Seems we are in that hole, and maybe it is time to try something else? A good start would be to stop throwing ever increasing monies at the inner-city hole. Government, and private (white) citizens alike, have done their part, yet the problem persists… so it is time the blacks take care of it themselves. Stop insisting others fix it for them.
Statistics never lie
A quote from this article states that blacks commit more than 50 percent of all violent crimes and make up only 12% to 13% of the population, by the way this 12% or 13% has figure has remained at that level for over 50 ears! . These figures of 50% of crimes are committed. I am sorry but these statistics are wrong, Go to the New York City Police Internet site add up all the violent crimes and keep them separated by race the way New York City Police keep them, separated by race. Here is what you find between 87% and 94% of all violent crime in New York City are committed by blacks and or hispanics. Can you liberal jackasses understand that! The problem is not guns the problem is people. Simple! But wait the bumbling people who run Washington D C have the solution, PAY THE CRIMINALS FOR NOT COMMITTING CRIMES! It is laughable. I think the people who run DC are going to make DC Police look like THE KEYSTONE COPS! I am trying to figure out which crimes I would have to do in order to get paid for not committing the crimes. Where do I sign up for this crap!
I am not positive where you are getting your information, but good topic. I needs to spend some time studying much more or working out more. Thanks for magnificent information I was searching for this information for my mission.
“Trauma begets trauma”, just google it.
In many northern European countries they treat the whole family when they find a troubled youth. No only is the youth evaluated and treated, but the rest of the troubled youth’s family is also treated to teach then how not to traumatize the youth again. Here in the US, we just give the kid detention, or expel the kid from school. They break the cycle of violence, we let it go on to create new generations of problem youth.
I’ll point out this site’s publications list. They have done a lot with treatment of traumatised youth, and talked about the problems in the children’s environments.
http://www.traumacenter.org/products/publications.php
The book “The Body Keeps the Score:
Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma”, by Bessel van der Kolk, M.D. is excellent for understanding trauma and it’s impacts.
While the 1980-2008 data from us census bureau showed the most number of people committing homicides happening to be black, the people committing homicides who were white, were not that far behind. Also more recent reports from the past few years, seem to depict the main demographic of people (who are documented citizens being “white.” in their total numbers https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
Yes, I’m aware of the reports on a faction undocumented migrants committing crimes in the us, but those numbers are not official
though not entirely, racism within the criminal justice system still exists and is still a problem
Those fbi stats you’re so proud to tour, are not reflective of the true racial breakdown. For all of those years Hispanics were counted as white. This is no longer the case and the numbers of white murderers have dropped by nearly 75%, while the number of white victims has barely seen a noticeable depreciation.
Black people commit more crime. For illustration visit Chicago’s http://heyjackass.com crime stat site. Chicago is averaging a homicide every 13 hours. The breakdown for this year for victims is: 70.3 black, 26.4 hispanic, 3.3 all other races. Of that 3.3 others, two of them are murder victims at the hands of blacks. Same last year, the year before, and so-on.
“In many northern European countries they treat the whole family when they find a troubled youth.” Bring that program here. Deal with big families of four or five kids, all with different fathers, with none of the fathers in the household. Families who speak a non-standard form of English, people who have never had a job and don’t want one. Lets see how well Europe handles the new immigrants coming across the border.
The United States is one of the safest places in the world to live. Our crime rate is very low when we control for race. According to the CDC murder at the hands of a young black male is the leading cause of death for young black males. White murder victims tend to be much older, in their late 40s.
It is NOT a race or poverty issue, it IS a mindset or cultural issue when anyone’s mind is raised on and fed the crap that all there problems are because of someone, that all bad things are because of someone else, that they cannot improve because of someone else. Guess who they are going to target…….. that someone else
This information and even comments are all wrong and mostly daft.
The is a suggestion that black pigmentation in ones skin has a relation to the propensity to commit crime. This is utter nonsense. The statics and demographics applied here need revision.
I believe the economic conditions that people are in, may have more play to observable behaviour. A better comparison to arrive at black/white crime rates must necessarily hold wealth at constant. Compare whites/blacks from the exact same locale.
My guess rate will be exactly the same since skin colour has no relation to disposition to commit crime.
Thank you.
I think that sadly. Race is a factor.. not because skin tone makes one better or worse. . But genealogy does matter. . Violence runs in the genes. Bad attitudes and criminal practices are handed down through family genes and family teachings. A large percentage of the black people in America descended from criminals that africa didn’t want. That is not the only factor. But its a big factor that everyone seems to overlook. Poverty is an issue.. also the “cool” factor among the black community. . America’s laws are considered “white laws” by the black community. . And if a black man wants to follow those laws, he is labeled an uncle tom by most of his peers and loses most his peer and even his family support. Effectively being black balled for not being a mindless robot that represents the hateful rebellious rap community.
Poverty breeds crime, but crime also breeds poverty. Crime drives all the business’s along with the jobs out of the community. Look at those Maryland riots, they robbed and looted so many stores and business’s, then burned them to the ground. Those business’s most likely employ black people. Vandalizing, looting and burning those stores and business’s, is not social justice, it’s crime! Now all those black people that worked there are unemployed. Biting the hand that feeds them! Not only that, on a day to day basis imagine being a store owner and having a gun shoved in your face or being mugged? Why would a store owner want to stay? Chances are that owner is going to pack up and leave! There goes the jobs, not to mention the food, goods and services. Think of every time a gang has a shootout in front of a school yard, who gets killed in the crossfire, a little black kid. When an elderly person gets mugged and beat up, it’s usually an elderly black citizen. The black leaders, clergy and parents have to speak up and speak out! Stay in school, don’t do drugs, don’t rob people, don’t get pregnant, get a job, etc. There are countless people that start out with nothing and try to make something of themselves. People have to take responsibility and stop blaming everybody else and stop acting like the victim!
Where do you think the bulk of slaves sold in the Atlantic slave trade came from? Nigerians themselves, captured, tortured, and sold slaves at a monumental rate. It’s been a part of African culture for,well, forever. The African tribes that would wear certain colors, or use a unique language, would often seek to destroy and kill all members of other tribes. Very similar to black gangs we see today in “Chiraq”.
So you grudgingly accept that the claim is absolutely, positively true (due to the overwhelming evidence), and then proceed to immediately kick up a bunch of excuses for it.
It’s down to culture exclusively. West Virginia is the poorest state in the USA and it’s very safe. Oh yeah, and it’s almost entirely white. Poverty has little to do with crime. Poor people are still people and are not more disposed to crime.
Black culture celebrates and promotes violence and shames people who cooperate with the police. That’s why black men are 13x more likely to commit inter-racial homicide than white men.
Stop making excuses for black people. They are not children and you are being racist by patronizing them and treating them as though they are.
When did us blacks celebrate crime? Not all Blacks are mean and cruel. And of course we have souls. What is wrong with you.
“…with less access to public assistance”. What public assistance do you find in the gated communities? …or the upper middle income neighborhoods? The most public assistance is found in those areas with higher crime rates in the form of public housing, food banks, community shelters. IT is these offers of assistance that brings the impoverished together to victimize each other. And it is the public assistance that lessens a persons self worth and value. Meanwhile, in those gated communities and more affluent neighborhoods, the members tend to help themselves not depend on others, or the government assistance programs. They work, they raise their children, they attend school, they take actions that improve their own lives, rather than depending on government hand-outs and public assistance. Maybe the government assistance carries part of the blame for creating the poverty that leads to the crime.
Totally misleading but I wouldn’t expect anything else from a liberal news organization like Channel 4. For example:
“Higher poverty rates among various urban black communities might explain the difference in crime rates.”
No they cannot explain differences in crime rates. Here’s why:
1. Some crimes should be unaffected by poverty, for example rape. Yet this crime remains significantly higher among blacks.
2. Of course wealthy black and white populations are going to commit less crime. This has more to do with self control and IQ which effects both variables.. It’s like saying that both rich black and white lawyers have similar literacy rates therefore literacy must be caused by occupation rather than race.
3. Crime among blacks is higher than other races everywhere on the planet. You only have to look at South America, France, England, the Caribbean, South Africa etc.
4. Correlation does not imply causation. Channel 4 assumes that crime must correlate with poverty. However why can’t poverty correlate with crime. Obviously businesses are going to leave town if shop owners are likely to be victims of violence, Plus people with criminal convictions are going to have a harder time finding work.
5. There could be a hidden variable responsible for both poverty AND crime. For example there is a strong correlation between average IQ and crime and Average IQ and poverty. So why not assume that this is the correlation instead?
6. Channel 4 just dismisses the genetic explanation as just “unapologetic racism”. However there is overwhelming scientific evidence that intelligence and behavior have a strong genetic bases. (Factors like tribalism, altruism, intelligence, consciousnesses etc). There’s no reason to believe that different population groups that were separated by tens of thousands of years, that existed in different environments would not evolve differences in average intelligence and behavior. These differences are responsible for differences in culture
It’s more important to note that only a small fraction of 1% of Black men commit homicides each year. There are 20 million Black American males but less than 20,000 homicides a year in the U.S. total.
The claim below is racist because it lumps murderers with non murderers based on race.
“It’s important to note that black men commit nearly half of all murders in this country, which is astounding when you take into consideration the fact that they only make up 12-13 per cent of the population.”
“James”, 26 November 2014
MrUniteUS,
Playing the race card against someone just because they make a simple statement of fact, is not going to “Unite Us”. Instead it will only serve to increase the huge divide between us.
And if you truly think that “only <1% of blacks commit murder in a given year" is no big deal, would you mind proving your point by taking a walk tonight through your local low income black area? Then, if you can ;) , report back here with your experience?
Oh, and good luck!
You’ve been “playing the race card” on here for two years. Do you think you’re in a position to admonish one for supposedly doing the same thing. As if no one is able to check and see how long you’ve done it…
Ian,
I really do not know what your point is Ian, other than to discredit me. I doubt my writing 15 posts over a 14 month period means I am some prolific troll not worth paying attention to. That is laughable. Nonetheless, I will leave it to the readers in this very, very slow moving discussion to decide my contribution, and ignore me if they wish. If they read all my posts, they will also find that I made a few posts, went inactive, and someone appealed for my return. Since then I have made a few more posts.
Your point about me playing the race card is simply sophomoric. Maybe you missed it, but MrUniteUS WAS playing the race card. You sound like a little kid. Perhaps do something constructive and give your opinion as to why such a small segment of our population commits so much of the crime, riots so often, and lags behind society in all other metrics except music and sports.
There is little left for me to add to this discussion, as my position is well covered in my earlier posts. Author “papachet” also made a very eloquent, and impressive assessment of the problem…with which I agree, that pretty much reflects the general attitude among most whites, Asians and Hispanics as I see it, regarding this seemingly intractable black problem.
Other than our guilt ridden white liberals, I simply do not see the majority of whites, and other communities, budging from the views already well expressed here. They have simply had enough.
There are those who would benefit from the instability that mass violence of any kind creates. Those who would benefit will not announce themselves, but they are reasonably easy to detect. They are the ones whose credo is “Never let a good crises go to waste.”
Racial hatred that spills over into violence is a reason for the government to step in and “Save us”. Much like class hatred for those who have followed the proven rules of preparation for opportunity through education, a stable marriage, hard work and thrift are made the enemies by calling them crooks or winners of life’s lottery. If you are intellectually honest you will recognize that the benefactors would be those who are in or control the political class, because civil unrest is the opportunity for bigger government.
Our Black brothers and sisters have been ravaged. Brought here as slaves, bought and sold like cattle, when finally freed Jim Crow laws made upward mobility almost impossible. That is tragically true. It is also true that kind of racism does not exist today.
Our President is black, our Attorney General is black, senators, congressmen, mayors, CEO’s, educators, small business owners, not to mention the respect and rewards for athletes and entertainers who are black, makes the accusations that there is systemic racism in America today ridiculous on its face.
Here is how the blacks in this country are being destroyed. In the early part of the 20th Century the illegitimate birthrate among the black population was lower than among the whites. Today, 73% of black children are born out of wedlock.
When slaves, it was difficult to impossible to hold a family together. When free, though in greater poverty, these people knew the value of family. You have to ask yourself, “What happened?”
In 1965, after the black population had cut their poverty rate in half by their own best efforts, they were given the keys to failure by those who pretended to care about them. I believe the cut in families below the poverty line came about because of WWII and the Korean War. For the first time white men and black men fought along side each other. When your life is in the hands of another and they hold up their end you cannot help but respect the man regardless of any other factor. Then the government did a good thing. They recognized that these men, both white and black, deserved to experience the gratitude their nation felt for their selfless service. The recognition came in the form of the GI Bill, which was earned, not given to them. If you had a good job, which you could get if you had a good education, which you could get with the G I Bill, then you could get a home of your own.
This brought about the greatest upward mobility for many, black and white.
LBJ wanted to make his mark and the War On Poverty was his vehicle. In that bill was the provision that if a woman had children and there was no man living in that home she would get a check for each child. If the man did not have a great job, she was better kicking him out and taking the welfare check. On the other hand tha man sawhis opportunity to sow seed and bear no responsibility. This was a primary cause of the destruction of the black family.
The second big injury to the black community is the grip the Teacher’s Union has on the Democrat Party. The teachers are critically important in the transfer of information from one generation to another. The union is not important, but it has one goal, a goal that many in congress also share – stay in power regardless who gets hurt or how inefficient and destructive their tenure may be. Children in poor districts, mostly black, are crippled in several ways. Poor teachers who do not want to be there, who are not good at their job and cannot be fired. Homes without fathers, where there is little parental encouragement to study and prevail, school leadership who will not enforce discipline so that those who really want to learn are deprived of the opportunity and a culture that surrounds the children that uses every vice, drugs, sex etc, to corrode the child,s vision of what life is.
Our Founders warned us against big government. They gave us a Constitution that did not provide group rights – only individual rights.Individual right has a partner, individual responsibility.
Encourage strong marriages, the Christian of the African American community has been a big factor in previous black victories and can be so again when taught in truth.
Vote out those who will not push for much better educational outcomes in the essential knowledge required to build a good life.
Challenge those who would try to make these talented people believe they are the helpless victims of racism.
Love one another as Jesus Christ so beautifully taught.
Know the Truth and the Truth will set you free. May God bless America.
Ok, tell me this…Africa was the cradle of mankind. That much is factual. But all these blacks claim they are the superior race, only whites hold them down here, whites are inferior, etc.. Well I look at most of Africa, the parts that whites didn’t run and what do you see? Nearly zero progress since man began being man. They had untold riches beneath their feet in both diamonds and gold. As well as many other minerals. But it took whites to find and mine them. There is water all around the continent but they never thought of fisheries, or even building a boat and a net to catch them. And killing is extremely rampant due to every single black run city, state, or country is corrupted on every step of the ladder. War has been going on someplace in Africa for over 150 years.
If they had from the time that humans existed until now and have done nothing to forward their people, it’s no wonder why everywhere else that migrated out of Africa has prospered extremely well. Go figure.
A quote from Huffpost article is a tired and meaningless ” blacks were killed at rates disproportionate to their percentage of the U.S. population. ”
Maybe it’s because they commit far more crimes than their percentage of the U.S. Population. Period. Nobody EVER brings that up when blaming cops for targeting blacks. Truth is young black men are inherently dangerous, strictly by the numbers.
Poverty doesn’t produce crime. Crime (and bad character) produce poverty.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/inside-the-criminal-mind/201412/crime-causes-poverty
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/392865/poverty-doesnt-cause-crime-dennis-prager
“Do you know that Negroes are 10 percent of the population of St. Louis and are responsible for 58 percent of its crimes? We’ve got to face that. And we’ve got to do something about our moral standards. We know that there are many things wrong in the white world, but there are many things wrong in the black world, too. We can’t keep on blaming the white man. There are things we must do for ourselves.”
— Martin Luther King Jr. (in a speech to a St. Louis church congregation, 1961)
Regardless of all the juggled statistics and graphs here, the facts of every large city in the US are this:
The crime maps for these cities show that the heaviest violent areas are populated with blacks in every case.
I have been following up on the stories of black deaths at hands of white cops. I was initially quick to conclude that the killings are nothing but racist, until i met some twitter friends who gave me more insight. Itnis truely worrisome that more nearly half the crimes in America are committed by blacks who only constitute 13% of the population. Then i went black to do a second check on the timeline of the killings and got a reminder that stuck out.almost all the folks killed were UNARMED. There must be an explanation for this. And only the cops in the line of duty can provide the answers to this. Perhaps a police-civillian engagement may also help to foster understanding between races. God bless the united states of America.
Besides racism playing into the majority of those “unarmed deaths of black men and women” intertwined with that is fear … the two make for a deadly combination … if the racism issue could be resolved, the fear part could then be resolved as well, HOWEVER, there are those who wish this viscous cycle to contnue.
I think the world would be more fair and better if the world was made with all the same race. Before you tell me i’m talking like Hitler, and don’t say i want to start a genocide, because i don’t. I just think the world would be more simple if we were all black, all white, all Asian, all British, etc. But, i’m only a 13 year old girl, living a fortunate life in Michigan. I’m not against blacks or whites, it’s just my opinion.
We are all one race. We are different breeds of the same species. Animals that can interbreed and produce viable and fertile offspring are of the same genus.
OMG reading a lot of threads…..So many many here want live on the past and the past is gone…remember all cultures and been oppressed….every race….example, Chinese , Spanish everyone…..number one prob is lack of education and living on hate….hate is life a big fire ….more hate creates a bigger fire…..Its makes me ashamed to be American sometimes of all the hate…..don’t worry if you want hate only thing that will happen is your world will fall aprt around you….good luck……get educated and be successful that is cure for all problems, without good mind and profession what do u have ….ur successful….
Chew on this, and then let us know who the repressor of your people is. Who the one slaughtering lives in the streets. Is the biggest threat to the black race.
Over 1,400 more black Americans murdered other blacks in two years than were lynched from 1882 to 1968.
According to FBI data, 4,906 black people murdered other blacks in 2010 and 2011. That is 1,460 more black Americans killed by other blacks in two years than were lynched from 1882 to 1968, according to the Tuskegee Institute.
Black People (mostly men) commit a grossly disproportionate amount of crime.
In 2012, white males were 38 percent of the population and committed 4,582 murders. That same year, black males were just 6.6 percent of the population but committed a staggering 5,531 murders.
In other words: black people–at just a fifth of the size–committed almost 1,000 more murders than their white counterparts.
Black People (mostly men) commit a grossly disproportionate amount of crime.
In 2012, white males were 38 percent of the population and committed 4,582 murders. That same year, black males were just 6.6 percent of the population but committed a staggering 5,531 murders.
In other words: black people–at just a fifth of the size–committed almost 1,000 more murders than their white counterparts.
advertisement
The figures above highlight a horrific truth that black racialists and white liberals routinely ignore: Lawbreaking black Americans, young black males particularly, put themselves in close proximity to (mostly white male) police officers at rates sometimes five to 10 times higher than whites. This is a recipe for disaster. Thusly….
FACT 3. Despite making up just 13% of the population, blacks committed half of homicides in the United States for nearly 30 years.
DOJ statistics show that between 1980 and 2008, black people committed 52% of homicides.
In 2013, black criminals committed 38% of the murders. Whites accounted for just 31 percent.
There are five times fewer black people than white people in America and, yet, they consistently carry out a larger share of the crimes? Given this rate, it’s no wonder that there aren’t more assistances where cops kill black criminals.
It would take cops 40 years to kill as many black men as have died at the hands of others black men in 2012 alone.
University of Toledo criminologist Dr. Richard R. Johnson examined the latest crime data from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports and Centers for Disease Control and found that an average of 4,472 black men were killed by other black men annually between Jan. 1, 2009, and Dec. 31, 2012.
You need to understand something very simple: no one is defending black crime! What we are defending is a black person’s right to go through the same processes of the justice system as a white person…by that, I mean no death penalty at the hands of officers. We want them to be trained better. We want them to not react to stereotypes that are racially biased. They have tasers and other methods to deal with UNARMED offenders or so-called suspects. We also want them to stop considering any black they choose to be a suspect without adequate evidence.
Now, to address your potentially meaningless stats:
For starters, you say that in a 2 year period there were 1400 more blacks killed by blacks than lynched by whites from 1882-1968. Well, since you’re such a supporter of stats, you probably are aware -and just forgot, I guess- that populations have grown. Now, while the numbers may still correlate in your favor, common sense -for which I don’t think you actively support- would also tell you that there are FAR MORE unrecorded lynching than there were recorded ones.
As far as the stats that report violent crimes by race, well, we are usually in the lead, unfortunately. But, be advised that a lot of the stats are based on ARRESTS, not CONVICTIONS. And, there is evidence of blacks being disproportionately targeted by police in seeking out perpetrators and making arrests. Again, accuracy probably won’t make a change in who has the lead, but if ALL information were reported accurately, we could have more understanding of a part of this matter.
I won’t argue that black on black crime is not a big deal, it absolutely is. But, it’s a different branch of the tree that says black lives matter in this nation. In fact, it’s a bigger branch. But its size doesn’t cast that much shade on the branch that says police officers should not be shooting to kill unjustifiably. And the tree that says black lives matter wants their to be a stop for all the leniency that is given to these particular officers when they needlessly take a LIFE! You are quick to pull numbers, for some reason, to justify this. Your even go as fAR to say that young black ofenders put themselves in close proximity to white officers, as if they did that intentionally. I beg to argue that criminal offenders are not purposely getting close to any officer. I also would argue that avoiding white officers would be futile, since they are mostly white. You also said it would take 40 years for police officers to catch up to black on black crime. Well! I pray you don’t get many more views than mine. I would hate for those particular aggressive officers who operate with racial motivation don’t read this. We don’t need them to see that as a challenge.
In closing, I thinks it’s horrible of you to use these numbers in a twisted way. You went through a lot of trouble to defend racism, whwthwr you want to see it that way or not. But I am not your Judge, you will face Him one day. I pray for you, and hope that he sheds light on your heart, and your mind.
Thank you for supporting the other person’s argument by refuting statistics with your personal feelings and wild conjecture.
Well done.
The biggest organized crime groups in the world:
1.Solntsevskaya Bratva (Russian mafia)
2.Yamaguchi Gumi (Yakuza)
3.Camorra (Italian-American mafia)
4.The ‘Ndràngheta (Italian mafia)
5.Sinaloa Cartel
none of them are black lol
Khalid,
You got that from: http://fortune.com/2014/09/14/biggest-organized-crime-groups-in-the-world/
Your list of the “biggest organized crime groups” is based on “estimated revenue” size. Which organized crime group is biggest by membership? Hard to tell, as there is little info on that, but as a reference, the FBI estimates the Italian mafia has 25,000 members worldwide, with only 3000 here in the US.
Now compare that to the gang membership in the *US alone*, where we have 850,000 gang members; 47% Hispanic, 35% black, and 7% white.
Not trying to downplay the negative impact organized crime has on our society, just because they tend to be of European, Russian or Asian decent, as they truly are huge problem.
This site link tells a better story than what most folks posting here.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf
Your premise is flawed from go. Poverty isn’t causing the crime. Poverty is a symptom and so is crime of the true problem. Broken families and the welfare state is the cause. Poverty and crime is what results. What you described would be the equivalent of saying “I have a runny nose, therefore my cough caused it”. No, you have a cold, runny nose and cough are a symptom.
I did a little research and it seems studies show it is not poverty, it is not broken families and I am going to assume it is equally not the welfare state. It may not be anything on the outside. What if it is the frustration of being constantly treated differently often in a negative way, that causes an outburst of crime?
Doesn’t matter that the statistics on this claim are murky.
The fact is that from a scientific basis, THERE ARE NO CHARACTER TRAITS CORRELATED WITH ANY ONE PARTICULAR RACE. NONE.
In fact, race doesn’t really exist. It’s a human construct that was invented to separate and divide people, in order to control a certain subset of humans.
From a scientific perspective, some of us evolved to have less pigment due to geographic migration.
We are different pigments for this reason and this reason only. We are all the same species. Our biology is totally the same.
So people need to stop stereotyping any one race as being “more criminal” or more this or that. It’s STUPID and shows a HUGE ignorance of science.
Of course race exists. Sure it’s a human construct but it’s incredibly naive to think that the years spent cultivating different cultures in different parts of the planet haven’t created differences in all of us. Religion, location, population, history all contribute to a particular sect of people. Not everybody prays to Jesus, not everybody looks Asian or Indian or Black or White. Saying there’s no such thing as race is a very unrealistic way of looking at the world designed to make everybody feel better. Why do they have to feel better? We might as well all put pillows on our hands and tell everybody how pretty they look. It’s good that we’re all different. As a species we have an incredible amount of knowledge on the human condition that we wouldn’t have if we all had the same experiences.
stop blaming people and look at the person in the mirror, blame that person for whatever ails you! look within yourself and ask yourself to do the right thing! show everybody love the same way you love yourself! If you don’t love yourself it will be easy to see! The same segregation that made Richard Alle found his church as the AFRICAN Methodist Episcopal Church is the same hate that divides us all and it is perpetuated every time someone fills out a form and it asks us if we are black or white! like that matters to my doctor, as if i’m going to get the white people advil or the white people band-aid……. stop allowing big brother and old fashioned ideas ruin what america could be for our children. love everyone as if they might be jesus and lets see how things work out.
12-13% is a nonsense statistic for black men – thats black people – including women and children. Black men are about 4% of the population.
That is bull****, you just have to look at the evidence and you will see how false it is
The stastic you point to are bias because in white neighborhoods you can smoke a jay on the street. Mind that the neighborhood was affluent. I have seen poor people of all races abused, for the things they perpetrate. But bieng black in America,we get more abuse. Sherriff in california told me I was to big to fight, he would shoot me. At the time I was a 3rd class petty officer in the US Navy. I was 21 years old in 1983. It was in response to drinking beer on the beach with my 18 year old brother. He was also in the navy. Ian sure they would make up bogus charges to justify it. Some prosecutor would get a name from prosecuting any survivors. Considering the innocent men that have been released from prison for wrongful conviction after Gitmo like interrogation. We will always be able to prop up the race lie. Funny I have not seen a single “DuPont” released from jail. They like cross all t s and dot the I s when the defendant looks like their kid, cousin or parent. They hold their fire when it could be a disturbed relative.
The mandatory minimum affected the poor more than the rich. They created s long list of defendants and underfunded public defenders. How can you sleep at night knowing our public servants prefer to take the easy way out. Accuse the helpless and allow true perpetrators free rain.
When Innocence is lost for the defendant, it is lost for the victim past, present and future. SMDH
J M R:
Numbers you quoted: “In 2012, white males were 38 percent of the population and committed 4,582 murders. That same year, black males were just 6.6 percent of the population but committed a staggering 5,531 murders.”
Assuming population was 300m in the united states in 2012, and do a simple linear interpolation of the 2012 murder numbers by a 100 years (458200 and 553100 murders in 100 years), your numbers can be translated into these statements:
If you see a random white male, there is 99.6% chance he will _not_ commit a murder in 100 years.
If you see a random black male, there is 97.2% chance he will _not_ commit a murder in 100 years.
I am not saying your numbers were wrong, the above statements actually said the same only accounted for also the “good” Americans. These numbers actually bias statistically against the blacks because it was a simple linear projection, with more scientific estimates I bet the differences between the blacks and whites will be much smaller.
Instead of talking about black and white issues. We all need to be thinking about where our soul is going when we leave here. Having all this hatreds against one another is the problem. Just remember one thing, whether you believe or not, hate will not enter the kingdom of heaven . The fight is not about black and white, it’s about good and evil. Start looking pass the color of a person skin, and just maybe you will see the real person.
I’m reading a lot of projecting and deflecting. Here is what it is in a nutshell. White people……it’s OVER for you. Those chickens have come home to roost in your country and there is nothing you can do or say and nobody to BLAME but yourselves for your upcoming destruction. All of you LIARS need to shut up because I seal and expunge your criminal records. Keep your fake statistics and your holier than thou neighborhoods full of sexual assault, murder, battery and DUI. You’re THROUGH and your fearful comments prove your upcoming demise. For those whites that are helping and have a genuine sincere heart, you will be shown mercy, spared, and continued blessings will flow your way.
When calling the police racist it’s important to remember that they are White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American straight, gay, bi, transgender, Christian, Muslim, Hindu Atheist etc,etc etc. They are what we all are. Just a reflection of society. Want to know what the police are, go look in a mirror and ask what you are.