20 Aug 2014

Why we shouldn’t share – or view – the video of James Foley’s murder

Do I really have to explain this? Last night, late, on hearing the dreadful news about James Foley, I tweeted what I thought was a rather obvious, but pertinent reminder why we should not watch a video of a murder.

Apparently some people disagreed.

So here, briefly, is what I mean.

I’m a great believer in showing the reality of war and of humanitarian crises, because people need to understand the impact of things that they can change. I also believe we should show dead bodies on the news in some but not all circumstances, as well as explosions or bombings.

But there is something different and perhaps sacred about the moment of death that makes these sorts of videos, for me, completely different.

Would I ever watch a video of somebody being killed in this country? On the whole, no.

Some point to the video of the Woolwich murder of Lee Rigby. Others will also point to the video-game-like presentations of coalition forces when they show us their precision airstrikes.

My personal view is that the same standard applies.

The whole reason Islamic State (IS) and al-Qaeda film murders and distribute them online is to spread fear.

I saw that fear on the face of refugees in Iraq last week. The propaganda value of these videos and the stories accompanying them, is so strong that IS does not have to fight its way in to huge swathes of Iraq – people have simply fled at the first sound of them on the city limits.

So spreading a video, or even watching it yourself and telling people about it, is simply doing exactly what IS and al-Qaeda want. It is, in effect, helping them.

You do not need to watch that video to know that it is gruesome, painful and utterly wrong.

You do not need to watch it to form a judgement about the kind of person who would do such a thing. It reveals nothing. So that’s why I didn’t watch it, and I suggest you don’t either.

And that’s without even beginning to consider the gross intrusion into the grief of James Foley’s family.

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45 reader comments

  1. Leila Youni says:

    I agree with you.The video should not be shared. Out of respect to the brave journalist who suffered a brutal death and his family. But seeing this video would not make me fear IS. In the contrary it disgusts me even more. I have though a weak /soft heart, I will find it horribly distressing.

  2. Philip Edwards says:

    Krish,

    Here’s your problem:

    Joe Citizens like me KNOW the video of James Foley is disgusting and horrible and that the culprit murderer should be identified and arraigned in front of a truly democratic court.

    Just as we KNOW when you show blitzkrieg bombing and air strike murder videos that we are ACTUALLY witnessing the death of other human beings portrayed as a firework display or computer game.

    Just as we KNOW when the hypocrite Cameron (rightly) describes the murder of Joe Foley as “shocking and depraved” he wouldn’t say the same about the much larger scale of mass murder of innocent Palestinians by the Israeli War State.

    Just as we KNOW when British right wing media (that is, all of it) is promoting the actions of a British establishment that has become little more than a mass murder machine directed by the USA.

    Is it any wonder homicidal maniacs decide to deal out the same media treatment the West deals out on its disgusting road to yet more genocide and mass murder?

    Meanwhile the innocent family of James Foley are the ones who pick up the dreadful and tragic bill for the behaviour of their (and our) cowardly political leaders.

    You want to know the roots of racism? Well, one of them is when other people are counted as “collateral damage” or expendable in pursuit of a political goal or profiteering. Another is when media fails to report the truth. This leads on to other things, and, inevitably, tit-for-tat revenge.

    The end result is the awful horror visited on James Foley and his family.

    1. Nasreen Amjad says:

      Excellent post-truly horrific what has happened to James Foley, but I agree the double standards are unbelievable.!

  3. sara says:

    My only concern is that people in the West are not taking the threat of these militants seriously. Somehow the feeling seems to be,,,its their culture, their religion so what right do I have to criticize. There needs to be an awakening to the true danger of extreme militants who feel they have a god given right to conquer and kill, Maybe we need to see this, I don’t know, I just feel Daniel Perl’s death now seems to have been in vain,

  4. grab says:

    I don’t think I need to see the video to acknowledge the seriousness of the thing I am objecting to. But that the video exists to be viewed means that those who would appease IS or seek to minimise the actions of IS will forever be called out when they deny such a thing took place. Or even those who disbelieve that such a thing could happen and therefore are complacent in the face of the attempt to establish a caliphate can educate themselves. Concurrently with the outrage such videos generate, the political will be available to attempt to oppose IS and it’s vile supporters.

  5. Daza says:

    I agree no point in watching this vid
    But wen people send u the link or it’s all over the net, it may fall on to your eyes. Didn’t mean we agree with it at all. Also jus puts more hatred for this terrorist group. There methods are crazy.

  6. Mike says:

    I didn’t realise the Daniel Pearl thing (thanks Sara for pointing this out). Personally, I agree with Krishnan’s view. I don’t need to see someone being beheaded to understand their murder.

    I can imagine it without having to see it.

    I just hope this killers are brought to justice.

    Mike

  7. Diana Miners says:

    Absolutely the right decision. To watch such things is unnecessary and disrespects the family’s grief. We do need the information but not these images.

  8. Mike says:

    I agree with Krishnan’s view, but I do not think that watching it is, as such, a crime.

    Tweeting links to it is certainly distastful, of questionable legality (especially if you are joking about it), and certainly demonstrates a serious lack of morality.

    I wonder if there is any way that the internet can govern itself to make this very difficult to find.

    I also just wanted to write that, as a “news junkie” i greatly admire and am greatful to the journalists who seek out the stories and provide us with their views. Thank you & RIP to this chap.

  9. Free Speech says:

    Agree with you completely. It doesn’t do you any good to watch this video. Think how the Foley family would feel about this video being made a public spectacle.

    It only aids the terrorists by creating and spreading fear.

  10. rob says:

    what people who did not see some of the video may not realise is that IS made James condemn the USA for using aerial bombardment to stop IS killing other religious sects on top of a mountain

    To know and defeat an enermy you must look him in the face

    This is probably the War the US needs to fight
    and Cameron to Obama What are your orders Sir

    meanwhile in the USA Baby Bush for Charity has a bucket of ice water tipped over his head by his wife and challenges Clinton to do the same

  11. marypgkeating says:

    I did see the video. and I recommend professional eyes view it as well. Many headlines today scream the perpetrator was/ is british. It is true he spoke with a British accent- slightly- could also have been slightly south African. .possibly even New Zealand. It was just an occasional accented word here and there.
    The actual beheading, if it took place is not actually shown.
    The video was professionally made, using more than one camera, so it is likely the voice was altered as well electronically.
    It is possible it is real, it is equally possible it was faked. Would need an expert to analyse it. I cannot help but wonder at the real reason it was removed from UTube so very quickly. I would encourage experts to watch it and analyse it.. the sections of obama’s speech and gestures that were included are relevant, possibly quite cynical.. maybe more..

  12. Steve says:

    That poor guy – a civilised man killed by a fanatic savage. To think that the perpetrator was born and raised in Britain is an added horror… how can our society develop young men that butcher in cold blood in the name of their god??…and how many hundreds more like him live amongst us just waiting for “their day”. These Islamists are a threat to the civilised world and only by acting now can we prevent such atrocities occurring throughout Europe in the next 20 years.
    “All that is required for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing”…..

  13. Philip Smith-Lawrence says:

    I totally agree with you Krishnan. Perhaps you could explore why this video was/is allowed to remain online, if it is still online? OK, there is no real way to stop such horrendous videos being posted online but surely there has to be protocols in place with the likes of YouTube, Vimeo etc, that can be and should be, followed once this type of atrocity is posted online. Common sense and respect of individuals dignity must take precedence is cases like this.

  14. Noel Kenny says:

    I sat down to watch (video) but then got that appropriate feeling of repulsion in the pit of my stomach and couldn’t go through with it. Where did it all go wrong? Why are these things happening? Heartfelt sympathy to a man & family I had never heard of before five o’c this evening. What has one side of the world done to the other side to generate such fierce hatred. The world needs answers and fast.

  15. Cenred Elworthy says:

    I had come to the same conclusion. Watching someone being butchered is not going to add to my or anyone elses humanity.

  16. Roger says:

    We have been recently remembering the great war, the appalling loss of life and how we did it all again two decades later. The grainy footage, the poignant reflections of the war poets and the proclamation that “This must never happen again”. Well now we get to see it all in high definition, and, in surround sound, if you have the kit. To see every tear in an injured child’s eyes is horrific enough. The people that filmed this are mistaken if they think that responsible adults would be any more shocked by this action. If they believe they are right, why didn’t they have the courage to show their own faces as well as the victim’s? The answer: Cowardice.

  17. Robert Daley says:

    I.S. say they worship Allah,I say they worship themselves,they are not warriors ,but butchers.

  18. Patrick says:

    The police have been telling us that viewing the video could actually be a criminal offense but never once go into detail with regards to the specifics of which offense would actually be committed. Don’t get me wrong: I think the video is vile and would agree wholeheartedly that watching it is a very bad idea.

    There is one unanswered question though: since when do we allow the police to decide what the law is?

    The police are here to enforce the law, not to determine what it should be. They are public servants and it’s a very bad idea to continue to allow them to get ideas above their station like this.

    The day that we allow the police to determine what the law is is the day we really will be living in a police state.

  19. David Harley says:

    I don’t recall anyone making a fuss about the videos of mass murders committed by ISIS. I don’t recall anyone talking about them much. We hear occasionally of other massacres. How many Iraqis are equivalent to slaughtered Britons or Americans?

    1. Matt says:

      Maybe you should watch/read/listen to the news occasionally. IS/ISIS and its atrocities have been reported extensively for months. Admittedly Foley’s murder has received a disproportionate amount of coverage, as deaths of Americans always do. And we’re all well aware of the algebra of the value of human life depending on who the individual is, where they come from and the colour of their skin. But it is silly to suggest that the media is oblivious to the deaths of Iraqis or that it has only just woken up to the existence of IS/ISIS.

  20. Patrick says:

    I watched videos of beheadings years ago for one reason. I wanted to know what kind of animals these scumbags actually are. It’s difficult to watch a murderous pile of human excrement sawing the head off a living person, but I’m glad I watched because it made it so easy to hate the bastards and to smile whenever I see photos of them DEAD. The world will never be safe until it is free of Islam and their 7th century mentality.

  21. Pauline Kahney says:

    I heartily agree with Philip Edwards’ comments about the contrasting description of Foley’s terrible death with the genocide of innocent Palestinians in Gaza, brushed off as “collateral damage” by our political leaders.
    Until the USA and Israel actually talk peace with Hamas and other factions, this cycle of violence will continue. What is to be done with the thousands of refugees in neighboring countries, driven out by the establishment of Israel? They still fester in camps, hoping against hope that they will return to their homeland. The rockets from Gaza give those poor souls hope, even though that ineffective action could be considered a war crime. Shame on the members of the US Congress and Senate who voted one hundred per cent for Israel’s right to defend itself, without mention of its murderous methods. I still consider that might is not right, but, as usual, the voice of peace goes unheard in these times.

  22. Jens says:

    I wouldn’t want to watch the video and that makes me feel guilty. Foley meets such a horrific end and I’m too afraid to watch it, not knowing what it will do to my mind. And I’m not only talking about it making me feel physically sick – but also the mental effect it could have on my ability for sober judgement.

  23. sue_m says:

    I agree with both Krish and Grab in that we don’t need to watch someone’s son being brutally murdered to know it is horrific but also, that by videoing it, the deranged men who do this have at least provided the evidence of what they really are – bloodthirsty, brainwashed bullies not devout followers of any god.
    They are just a bunch of men who want the power to subjugate other humans by brute force the way greedy, ignorant men have done for thousands of years. James Foley was sadly just one of their many victims.

    I think these things need reporting – it’s what’s happening in the world after all – but we shouldn’t be feeding their campaign by making them headline news which not only perpetuates the fear but attracts more of the same to their ’cause’. Also, why do news outlets refer to them by the name (Isis/IS or whatever) they choose as if to legitimise their existence. They are simply Islamic extremists and murderers and that is how we should describe them. And when their actions are referred to it should be as ‘murder’ not ‘beheading’ as to some sick individuals a beheading sounds like some glorified meting out of justice – criminals were beheaded in many countries not so long ago.

    We need to keep in mind they are murderers, no more, no less.

  24. Philip Smith-Lawrence says:

    @Patrick, I think you will find that the Police do not decide what is law, they merely enforce existing laws.

    1. Patrick says:

      Then explain why they’ve claimed that viewing the video is a crime and completely failed to explain *how* it’s a crime.

      That sure sounds like making up law as you go along to me…

  25. Matt says:

    Respect for Foley and his family, and utter contempt for the perpetrators are good enough reasons not to watch the video. However, I don’t think distribution and viewing of it will make any difference in the broader scheme of things.

    If our primary aim is to stop this happening in the future, there are two things that have to happen.

    Firstly we need to demonstrate that we (the West) truly do represent civilisation by unfailingly promoting justice rather than injustice around the world. The unavoidable fact is that many people have very good reasons to be angry with us, and many that don’t, but still want to hate us for their own pathetic reasons, are given a convenient excuse.

    Secondly we need to wake up and state that our civilisation (and progress and wealth and all the other things that go with it) are based on the principles of the enlightenment. Mind-numbing religious superstition has no place in our world. If you tell people it is perfectly respectable to abandon reason then how can you hold them to any ethical standards? They will just do whatever they think their religion commands and you can have nothing to say about it. Some people may accept this point when it comes to The Islamic State, but object that Anglicanism, ‘moderate’ Islam, etc are completely different. They are wrong. People who truly prize religious faith over reason are only one divine command away from picking up the knife themselves. Plenty of Christians, Jews, Hindhus and Buddhists are doing that somewhere in the world as I type.

  26. Ikonos says:

    I watched it, It’s scary and real. There are many others like it also.
    We shouldn’t bury our heads in the sand like an ostrich. Instead of sitting comfortably in suburbia, the mainstream need to be aware of what we are up against. The Fatwa of the Beast is slowly and irrecoverably entombing this once green and pleasant land. Born from among cruel people in a desolate land, this hatred-driven ideology is slowly encroaching our shores. It’s contagious blood-lust and perverted theology knows no bounds.
    Unless we take action now, our children’s descendants will no longer be able to call themselves ‘free’ but will suffer in eternal bondage to the most unholy alliance.
    I can here them cry now – ‘why didn’t they do anything?’

  27. Julie says:

    I did watch it and I completely regret my decision. I can’t get the images out of my mind. Why did I watch it? I think part of me wanted to see it wasn’t as bad as I somehow imagined. That was a mistake. I don’t feel I have disrespected anyone by watching it. I certainly didn’t think I was committing a criminal offense. It has made me more aware of the manner in which these cold, calculated barbarians act. It has not made me fear them any more, but I despise them more. I will never watch another of these videos.

  28. Vincent Fawcett says:

    Nothing good will come from watching barabric executions of innocents other than a heightened revulsion to murderers hiding behing fanatical religious or political mis-ideals, we as civilised people from all walks of life and religious beliefs need to unite in our condemnation of such acts without needing “video” evidence and then collectively impress our views through the media and any channel open to us that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable and anyone participating in or supporting such barbarism will be brought to justice by whichever means that nations justice systems dictates. I believe this is what KGM is trying to communicate in this article and wholeheartedly support his views.

  29. NeeL says:

    I made a decision NOT to watch the video right from the very moment the story broke. However I don’t agree it’s Krish’s or anyone’s call as to whether people should watch the video or not. I’d expect each person to draw on their individual decency and sense of humanity. The same respectful decency why Channel 4 did not show the final fatal shot in the execution of the green T-shirt man by the murderous Israeli sniper.

    Let us imagine if the government decided the media MUST NOT report a particular story. We’d all cry censorship. We are decent and better than these brutes because we respect and uphold individual freedoms, civil liberties and the right to disagree. Sadly, those rights are being eroded faster than we realise. There’s even a threat to arrest anyone who watches that video. For God’s sake, what are becoming?

    We kept saying the Al-Qaedas and ISIS of this world will not change our civilisation, yet here we are slowly submitting those same hard-won values that are centuries old. I have heard supposedly intelligent, educated folks making this out into a “them against us”, or Christianity vs. Islam” – total nonsense. These evil reprobates hold the view that we are squeamish about death while they embrace it; that we love life while they glorify death, as suicide bombers.

    We have to show that we are NOT squeamish and will live and fight/die for our civilisation and values. Brave journalists, like James Foley, and others left behind WILL continue to bring us news and report atrocities from all corners of the world. No death is glamorous neither is one worse than the other, be it blowing people into pieces or beheading. Let’s preserve what’s left of our civil liberties and our civilisation. I can only appeal to the decency that lies within each one of us.

  30. Jay says:

    Unfortunately it is the graphic pictures of barbarian acts that remain in the collective consciousness, not the statistics. In democratic countries the will to act against the barbarians is bolstered by images that depict the gruesomeness of their evil. Without these images, the sense of awareness of these acts is crowded out by entertainment, and the resolve necessary to combat the evil never materializes. If we want Foley’s death to count as the atrocity that it is, and we want to count the civilians who have died at the hands of ISIS for the atrocities that they are, then we have to do whatever it takes to create the resolve to act.

  31. Y.S. says:

    I agree people should not watch the video. Foley was a reporter doing his job, there is No reason why he should have been captured in the first place. I think IS are un Islamic, they exist as the moderates were let down by the west in both Syria and Iraq.

  32. Parvin RL says:

    I watched the video because I had read numerous reports on it being a fake. Either way it’s highly disturbing and I believe watching it has the totally opposite effect of gaining sympathizers, before I had no idea what this terrorist group were doing due to a lack of reading the news, now i’m deeply angered by them.
    With all of that being said, the viewing of a terrorist video being considered as terrorism is slightly hypocritical when you had every media outlet in the world broadcasting images of thousands of people being killed in the WTC attacks 24/7 in 2001.

  33. Philip Smith-Lawrence says:

    Days after the horrific news broke about the murder of James Foley, I am astounded that some media proprietors and their editors, be they digital outlets or print media, do not have a shred of decency in their organisation and only report on the atrocity, in text only, and without any images.

  34. Hannah Tanhai says:

    Thank you Krishnan for your informed and valuable viewpoint, I have hovered over watching the video but as yet I have not watched it and by now it is unlikely that I will. However I feel that by not watching it, I am somehow doing a dis service to James Foley himself. We have the choice to avoid such trauma and pain but Jim had to endure that vile situation – imagine the run up to all of that?! A small part of me feels that we should watch it in order to totally understand and sympathise with Jim himself but of course I am wary that somehow that would be deemed as me joining in on the IS propaganda. So, in the end that Is my reason for not watching the video although I do feel that I have somehow failed James Foley himself.

  35. Amrish says:

    I don’t see any reason seeing a video of a man being killed, this group of people are simply murderers and should be shot, killing innocent people in Iraq and syria and innocent westerners does not mean their ever get to heaven , I can promise them that . Let prays that this will end soon and those who commit crime are held and sent to prison for a very long long time

  36. Chris says:

    I recall one of the first of these horrific videos, the Nick Berg murder/beheading video. There was some debate over whether or not he was alive at the time the gruesome deed occurred. I have NO idea why but I watched some of that video and I regret it to this day, I only hope the man was dead when it happened but it was utterly horrifying regardless.

    I am HAUNTED by that video even today but for weeks afterwards I was so utterly disturbed by it. I suppose this is what these sick murderers want, to instil fear, horror and terror, well it did just that very effectively. I was overwhelmed by the sheer horror and terror of it and I couldn’t stop thinking about that man’s last moments on this strange mad world.

    If you can watch these videos, if you have watched them in the past and have watched this then there is something deeply wrong with you. You don’t watch these videos because you hate America or Israel or ‘The West’. I am talking about the sick people that get a kick out of such horror.

    If you are normal, well as normal as anyone can be and if you are thinking about watching this, perhaps you think you should see the reality of it then don’t. You don’t need to watch this video to see the reality because all you will see is pure horror. If you’re not one of those sick people that laugh at others last moments in desperate circumstances then they will do what they do anyway, I am not talking to those people.

    I will never watch anything like it again by choice. That still image we see of James Foley in that orange suit is enough to prompt that aversion that was etched in to my mind the day I watched (almost all) of the Nick Berg murder video. I have insomnia so I wake up regularly during the night almost hourly for the first few hours and I put the TV on and it’s generally the news. Silly thing to do actually, wake up from a not so nice dream and put on the news and be greeted by horrors in reality. The last few nights I have seen that picture the news shows, I try my best not to think about it, I make up silly Sci-Fi scenarios in my mind to stop thinking about anything and it helps me fall asleep but despite doing my best not to think about it I still get a fleeting glimpse at what we know happens next and if I dwelled on it then it makes me want to weep, even thinking and writing this now makes me want to weep.

    These murderous sick individuals do this for a reason and it is to shock, horrify and terrify us. You might think, ‘Oh I have seen The Walking Dead and they do all sorts of gruesome gory bloody things so I can handle that’. It’s so utterly different when you know it’s real, when you know an innocent man is being murdered in a most gruesome manner it’s something else entirely. I can say without shame that I laugh at some of the stuff they do on The Walking Dead, the over the top gore on a film like Django Unchained but when you know it’s real you don’t laugh, you cry.

    If you watch this video you will be haunted by this man’s last moments on Earth.

  37. anon says:

    definitely not, even the still photo made me feel sick, an impossible call, but I think the right thing was done to show some of it, it has finished IS, perhaps the argument is similar to whether to show the faces of those killed in war, probaby best not to, but on balance showing this image, was right and has not helped recruit people -except to fight these evil people

    by the way can I say that Mr O’Briens conclusion last night about the alternative narrative, about talking to Muslims and avoiding any PR /spin operation, he was spot on I think. Thank you for your wisdom and care at Channel 4 news. sorry to contradict obviously well informed and skilled people but if the Government went near “organizsng” a narrative among the Muslim community, it would be the kiss of something or other.

    best iwshes, thanks again

  38. anon says:

    sorry, just an add on to the last one

    re developing the narrative with the Muslim community, perhaps the media such as yourselves need to help move this forwards? the idea of offering support from Government funds if this is being ocnsidered would be more a poisoned chalice, albeit unintended, perhaps the Muslim community could nip this in the bud now by polititely making it clear that any offers (if made) would be delcined as such funding would weaken such work not strenghten it,

    as an example sometimes grassroots movements can develop that are truly independent and not run by vested interests (true some have existed!) but the PRs of suchg vested interests would no never ever to go really neat them as they would damage such independent voices, similarly with the Muslim community and its disgust with IS

    also perhaps as part of this developing narrative one might bring in Christian voices who can articulate a very clear message that those who war monger, lauch crusades, invade countries without reason are running compltely counter to the Chrisitian message

    best wishes

  39. Joseph says:

    Totally agree! IS want me to watch, so I defy this propaganda, readily. We shouldn’t play their games.

  40. anon says:

    Hi, just a thought re developing the narrative with the Muslim community, could I ask if it might be possible to set up a second fact checker please dedicated just to htis, so that those knowledgerable of the Christian Faith and Muslim Faith can respond to what people like IS or others say and what their Faith actually says?

    Bibles like the NIV, and the one years before, forgot name sorry!! have used highly educated people to help interpret verses in the new Edition, perhaps a similar group could help add clarity and undermine those who misinterpret their religions and this would help undermine their support,

    perhaps Christians from the Orthodox, Russian, Ukranian churches would be very useful to add, and certainly I am sure groups from both the Christian and Muslim and if needs be other Faiths would work happily together as I think they may do already,

    just a thought, hope helpful
    best wishes

    abd certainly running it through your website and independent of ‘official’ avenues would help protect its authority as being independent and impartial

    the spirit of Christ is a gentle spirit, like an Ocean, be slightly wary of the arrogant as oppsed confident of any Faith, and two other thoughts as a Christian, God works tends to work through the broken and isolated, through those outnumbered and our enemy I beleive wil lend up destyoying himself throug his efforts to destry that whci hhe hates

    God Bless again

  41. anon says:

    also perhaps developing the narrative with the Muslim community, I think it is important to also stand against those who would seek to attack them because of their beliefs and events. In the christian Church their are loud and bombastic preachers, this is not the same as confdence or a deep faith, perhaps the same is the case for other Faiths. They need to be stopped from hijacking any debate and basically advocating an overeaction in the Middle east or anywhere else.

    we needed to send forces on the gorund ages ago, but not a ground invasion, there is huge difference surely?

    also with respect to the Military chap from the UK who knows obviously a lot more than most, I totally disagree that we need to re-arm to face some Russian threat, there is NO threat, and in terms of various weaponry i am sure there are huge differences now in capability, but what do I know

    best wishes

  42. A Marshall says:

    Krishnan – when you interviewed a “Mr Sharif” On tonight’s Channel 4 News can I ask why you why you didn’t ask him about the beheadings of US and UK nationals? These murders are the main reason (in my opinion) that the US (and possibly soon the UK) is involved in this direct action against the Islamic State terrorist group. You asked a vaguer question about whether this gentleman thought that IS threaten the west – surely the fact they are beheading westerners is proof positive that they do – in a very tangible way.

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