RIP Raoul Moat Facebook page removed
Updated on 15 July 2010
A Facebook page dedicated to the fugitive gunman has been taken down by its creator following protests from the prime minister as the social networking site tells Channel 4 News it had offered to meet Number 10 officials to explain why it would not remove the page.
The RIP Raoul Moat you Legend page had attracted 30,000 fans since it was set up by Siobhan O'Dowd.
Moat, 37, shot his ex-girlfriend Samantha Stobbart, her new lover Chris Brown and Pc David Rathband nearly two weeks ago. Mr Brown died of his wounds and Pc Rathband was blinded.
Ms O'Dowd was unapologetic over the sympathy page she started, saying that "everyone's entitled to their own opinion".
When asked on Talksport why Raoul Moat was a legend, Ms O'Dowd replied: "Legends get talked about - and he is getting talked about."
Psychologist Dr Aric Sigman told Channel 4 News the Facebook site "normalises abnormal views".
"You've always had people writing pamphlets about outlaws like Jesse James," he said. "The internet gives it that platform or medium for people who don't know other people to make communities with each other.
"If you or I stood up in a church or another geographical community and said 'this man is a hero', we would then have to deal with the social impact of it. The social consequence if you like. You'd have to deal with the response to your statement here and now.
"The Facebook users don't have to. They can behave like kids, say what they want to say, without the sanctions, the disapproval and against the way society would want them to act.
"It's a 'recreational virtual grief' they have created. You see it all the time with celebrity deaths too. It is very different to grief and support we see in geographical and physical locations."
Read more
Yesterday, prime minister David Cameron condemned those who had shown sympathy for the former nightclub bouncer Moat, after he shot himself following a seven day manhunt, during prime ministers questions (PMQs).
He was urged by a Conservative MP to contact Facebook to highlight his concerns with the social networking firm.
But Facebook told Channel 4 News that Number 10 did not approach them or contact the firm to request the page be removed.
A spokeswoman said Facebook contacted Downing Street "voluntarily", in light of what had occured in PMQs, to outline the social network's position.
She said: "We have been in touch with Downing Street and we outlined our position. They understood that we are allowing people to debate the issue, which has been widely reported in the news and is topical, and that we respect people with different views and opinions of our users. We are providing them with a place to discuss them."
She said that Raoul Moat, because he has been high on the agenda in the newspapers, on the television news, on the internet and radio, is classified on Facebook as "public figure". The "public figure" classification is anyone who has been in the headlines, is topical and people will have heard of.
She said: "Similar to celebrities, politicians and other public figures, Moat was in the headlines and people were talking about him. Facebook is reflecting the discussions that you would have in the pub, in your living room, in the local shop. It's just another platform.
She added: "We know there are people on there who support Moat, there are also others on there who don't - they give a different view. It's about allowing debate. But if any of the comments are against our Statement of Rights and Responsibilities rules or overstep the line then they will be taken down.
"We have reporting tools, and for example we recently listened to concerns from our users about privacy settings. We discussed this and changed it."
"We are monitoring the comments put on the Moat page and if any are against our rules or are illegal we will remove them. We work very closely with the law enforcement agencies and will pass anything illegal onto them.
The prime minister's official spokesman confirmed that it was not the purpose of the call to get the webpage taken down.
He said "We were not trying to instruct them to do anything. The purpose was to draw their attention to the Prime Minister's comments."
David Cameron said yesterday in PMQs: "It is absolutely clear that Raoul Moat was a callous murderer, full stop, end of story.
"I cannot understand any wave, however small, of public sympathy for this man.
"There should be sympathy for his victims and the havoc he wreaked in that community.
"There should be no sympathy for him."
Refusal
Facebook had refused to take down the page yesterday, saying that many people would find some of the topics discussed on the site "distasteful", but adding that it "is not a reason in itself to stop a debate from happening".
Tributes
Over 37,000 people have joined the group page on Facebook, although it appears a number of these are people who have joined in order to vent their frustrations at the group ever being produced.
Bouquets have been left outside Moat's former home in Fenham, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Flowers and cards transformed the riverside in Rothbury, Northumberland, where Moat shot himself in the early hours of Saturday morning, following a six hour siege.
Tributes at the shrine have been condemned by Britain's most senior policeman, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson, as "extraordinarily disappointing".
Yesterday victim Samantha Stobbart's half-sister, Kelly Stobbart, 27, said: "He's far from a legend. How would these people think if it was a member of their family that he done it to?
"They wouldn't like it. They wouldn't be legend then, they'd be calling him all the names.
"How can someone who does that to an innocent person be a legend? It's just disgusting."
One comment on the Facebook page said: "RIP raoul moat,another man ****** by the system again,he asked for help and recieved none. sickening. rest in peace mate, rest in peace."
Another said: "A lost soul R.I.P"
Another said: "R.I.P raoul moat a true soldier gone but never forgoten"
A separate Facebook page has been set up entitled "Raoul Moat was not a legend, don't kid yourself". In comparison this page has 700 followers.
Recordings
In new tape recordings broadcast today, which were handed over to ITV News by a friend of Moat, he is heard complaining about his treatment by social workers.
Moat, who wore a wire while he talked said: "I'm getting tired of this, this is five that I've missed since Christmas through daftness like this. They know exactly what they're doing oh aye .. that's 5 since the new year I've missed because of their mucking about like this, it's just not on.
"If I don't get to see them today I want to see someone in authority I want to complain I want to phone the civic centre because I've had enough. I've had enough of this. It's just dirty dirty tricks that they are pulling like this all the time."
In a statement, Newcastle City Council responded to the new recordings:
"We can confirm that in the course of care proceedings the need to understand further the potential impact of Mr Moats aggressive behaviour on the welfare of the children was identified.
"Mr Moat agreed to a psychological and a psychiatric assessment being carried out with the specific purpose of informing deliberations in the family court about the childrens future."
