Keith Brymer Jones – Judge

Series nine is upon us. What can we expect?

You can expect quite a lot of amazing makes – there are some really wonderful creations this series – and also some not-so-wonderful ones, obviously. But that’s the way the process rolls on. They’re a really wonderful bunch this year. It’s been really difficult for Rich and I some weeks to decide who was going to be potter of the week and who was going to go. It’s been very much more even stevens, in terms of the skillset, which is interesting for the viewer, because it’s so difficult to determine who’s going to stay and who’s going to go. 

Some of our potters this year just had some really bad weeks. They were incredible potters and incredible makers, and if truth be known, they should have lasted longer in the process, but just had a disastrous week, and as the format goes, they had to leave the pottery. It did throw everything up in the air for a bit, which makes for a really intriguing show. 

Tell us a bit about the potters…

We had a real age range. the youngest was 28, and the oldest was in their 60s. And they were a really eclectic bunch. It was a really interesting mix.

They always seem to form such an amazing bond. Was that the case again this year?

Absolutely, yeah. I think it’s because the process is so intense. What makes me and Rich smile every year is that they come in and they have absolutely no idea what impact it’s going to have on their life and their future. Without sounding too poetic, it is quite a profound experience for them. Every week they’re making something different, they’re getting to work with lots of different types of clay, using different techniques, and they’re being pushed creatively and technically every week. And they come out the end of it feeling like they’ve undergone an intensive course not just of clay, but of therapy. That’s the wonderful thing about this show, not only do we see wonderful things being made, but also we see the growth of the potters on the show, in terms of technical skills and ability, but also in their relationship with the clay, and their relationship with themselves. They do learn a lot about themselves, which is fascinating.

Ands there’s nothing better than watching someone’s confidence blossom, is there?

No, I love it! And you could probably argue that that’s why I get emotional. I think that’s it for me. I can really empathise with that, within my own life and my career. That feeling that you move on, you learn from your mistakes, and when you get it right, it’s just a wonderful feeling.

What were your favourite challenges this year?

We asked them to make bookends, and I really loved that. the general making process and the skills involved, and what we had at the end of it, were just wonderful. It even astounded me, what they made, when creating simple bookends. And they weren’t simple, actually, and boy did they show us! The other one for me was self-sculptures, in week eight. And it was coupled with an alternative firing, so we were out in the yard and they were building their own kilns. It was really lovely. 

What second challenges are lined up?

We had a few more guest judges this year. One of the reasons for that is that, while Rich and I love doing second challenges, there’s such an eclectic mix of ceramic techniques and incredible skills within the UK, and we wanted to really highlight that. We had some wonderful guest judges, showcasing so many different skills. Our guest judges included Nick Mackman – she does amazing things – Jo Taylor, who does lovely floral relief work, and we had Gabriel Nichols back this year, doing stuff in his native clay, dug out of the banks of the estuary in Hull.   And what’s great about the second challenge is the potters just have no idea what’s going to happen. And we’ve done the obligatory blindfold challenge again this year. 

Presumably the dreaded Bucket of Doom makes an appearance. Is it my imagination, or is there a part of you that quite enjoys that?

Oh yeah. Rich always describes me as having a personality change when the Bucket of Doom comes out. Although I can come across as quite empathic and encouraging, I can be really quite brutal when something hasn’t worked. I do that with my own work. My training was such that I was always told, if it wasn’t good, to shove it in the bin and do it again. So I can be quite harsh. ‘Firm but fair’ is how I see it. Sometimes the potters are quite shocked by how brutal I can be, but that’s how you learn. 

In your judging, what are you looking for? Which is more important, technical proficiency, or putting your personality into something?

Obviously I’m going to say a bit of both. What Rich and I have to be really mindful of is that the work is really subjective, especially when it’s artistic and creative. One person’s Mona Lisa could be another person’s thing that goes in a skip. We have to find a fine balance between looking at the technical skills involved in producing whatever work it is, the way they decorate those, and the application of that decoration, and the message the potter wants to get across. And Rich and I have different tastes, so as a judge, you’ve really got to look at the work in a very observational way, and also not get too bogged down by the aesthetic. If the aesthetic works within their story and their message, then absolutely, well and good, but it’s those technical skills that really determine how things turn out and how they come out of the kiln. 

If I gave you the opportunity to have one item from previous series to put in your home, which would you choose?

There was a piece of work this year that I really, really loved. I won’t tell you what it was, but it was a piece that was wonderful. Really accomplished, and it was a really lovely surprise. All great artwork is like this  - you put creative work out there in the world, and of course it means something to you, and you have a message within it, but a wonderful piece of work can mean so many things to so many other people. Artwork should be relatable, on a personal level, to whoever is observing it. 

One of the lovely aspects of the show is its kindness. Do you think that’s becoming more important, the way the world is just now?

That’s an understatement. I firmly believe that. We both try to be as critical as possible, but with an encouraging attitude to it. I think that’s the way you get people to learn about themselves, to improve their skillset, and to feel comfortable within the pottery. Which in turn gives us better and greater work in the weeks to follow. One needs to be empathic and incredibly encouraging. Rich and I are very respectful of all the hard work they put in, and it feels a bit flippant or a bit shallow to say “Well, actually, that’s hopeless!” We are very mindful to encourage a very positive atmosphere within the pottery. And that’s so important, with what’s going on in the world at the moment. We need more shows like ours. 

You get very emotional on the show, but the potters often do as well. Why do you think that is?

I say this year on year – clay is incredibly expressive, it’s incredibly tactile. I think there’s something that happens within the process of working with clay – its malleability, the attributes you can express with it are so amazing. That, coupled with the sheer determination and hard work that goes on every week, makes you incredibly emotional, and really invested in what you produce. It is just one of those materials that is a really good communicator, and we see that every week in our potters’ work. I think that’s what triggers the emotions. Obviously it does in me! Some of the potters don’t get that emotional, they try to think of it in an incredibly practical and technical level. But, for me, it’s those potters that really invest in their work, and have that emotional attachment to what they’ve created, I find that really inspiring. 

A lot of men are taught to be really buttoned-up with their emotions. Are you conscious of the positive affect that having a big, burly chap on TV being really open with his emotions can have?

Yeah, I am really conscious of it. And that’s partly because I get so many messages. I get so many DMs on Instagram from men – ex-servicemen, men that wouldn’t usually express their emotions – messaging me to say “Good on you, mate, it’s really good to see someone so free and honest with their emotions on national television.” I’ve never really had a problem with it, I think because my parents never frowned upon it. They never saw it as a weakness. I certainly don’t – I see it as a strength. I think it’s a really good thing. 

Is it just pottery that makes you cry, or are you like that when you’re watching a film, or looking at a view?

I’m going to disappoint you now: It is just pottery. 

I think, because I spent years and years in my career working with clay, and I know how hard it is, and because I’m so passionate about the medium, it does evoke a very strong emotional response in me. And when I see other people struggling – or succeeding – with said substance, I do get emotional about it. It’s my way of communicating with people, I think. 

How’s the Welsh Chapel going?

It’s great. We’re in there, and we’ve been in since April, and most of the living space is done. We are now gearing ourselves up for the second phase, which is the main chapel. It’s really exciting. I’m in the process of making sure the studio is up-and-running, and I can start producing work there. It’s user-friendly at the moment, but it’s got a very small kiln in there, and a wheel. I’m waiting for all the other major equipment to arrive. But we love it there.

When you’re not working or renovating the chapel, what do you do to relax?

I’ll give you one guess.

Please tell me you manage to step away from the wheel?

No, I don’t! That’s my way of relaxing! So I’m pretty busy at the moment, but I can’t wait to get back to the chapel and start working with some clay. if I don’t touch a piece of clay for a while, I do feel rather odd. So I’ll go back to the new studio in the chapel in a few weeks and just potter about working with clay, and I know I couldn’t be happier. 

You’ve turned 60 this year. How did you mark the occasion?

Well, we had a huge birthday celebration. It was partly for my big 6-0, and also a celebration of getting to Wales and being in the chapel. And it was a celebration of the community around us, that’s really helped us along the way. And you’ll be able to see all the shenanigans on the next series of Our Welsh Chapel Dream, because it all got filmed. There were a few wonderful surprises which were, dare I say it, quite emotional!

I think I’d be rather wary of having cameras in to film me at various landmark birthday parties!

[Laughs] The 60th was far bigger than we originally intended, it ran away with itself. I think we had about 400 people there, it was mad! But it was wonderful, we had so many people from the town there, and old friends, and people I’d not seen for 30 years. 

Do you think the show has contributed to an increase in pottery nationwide? How does that make you feel?

The ultimate legacy for me is the Great British public valuing craft skills, and seeing the value in things again. There is a value in learning something, there is a value in taking the time and the energy to develop different skills within a creative field. I love the fact that there are so many different pottery classes now, up and down the country. The ultimate goal for me is to bring it back into mainstream education.