‘Society needs to hold a mirror to itself’ – Annie Lennox on Pelicot trial

I spoke to political activist Annie Lennox, who was the singer with the Eurhythmics, a band which sold tens of millions of records in the 1980s. She’s the founder of the international feminist organisation The Circle. I began by asking her what does she think has changed for women and men after this trial.

Annie Lennox: In some ways certain things have changed and in some ways things haven’t changed. So you’re sort of dealing with two steps forward, one step back kind of situation here. I think we’ve got an opportunity now to focus on the issue once again, and the issue is violence against women, sexual violence against women. Which we know, the statistic is that one in three women experience violence in their lifetime. That’s a lot, and that’s a very hard thing to challenge because many of these events happen under the cover.

Many of them are in a sort of subcultural context where what is deemed unacceptable is suddenly deemed acceptable. How is it acceptable that a husband of a woman is able to drug her and bring total strangers into the home? The whole thing is so incredible and yet it’s just one story.

Cathy Newman: And not one of those men who was invited into the sort of circle thought about reporting Dominique Pelicot.

Annie Lennox: No, because the mindset is obviously far away from that. And I think that society really needs to hold a mirror up to itself. We need to find ways in which we can change these attitudes towards women and girls. Clearly it is so, it’s almost like a cancer in a funny sort of way.

And I think actually we’re in a crisis situation with violence against women, and this has gone on with so much stigma and so much shame and we need to really bring this out into the open. And I’m so proud of Gisele because this is so extreme. And I think to take up the stance of being a spokesperson against violence against women is such a brave and courageous thing to do.

Cathy Newman: You’re in America there, and you’re just about to have Donald Trump become president again. He’s been found liable for sexual assault in a civil trial. What does that say about whether attitudes are changing when he’s been put there by the American people to run the country?

Annie Lennox: Of course, we’re all waiting with trepidation to find out, you know, well not all of us, because many people have voted Donald Trump in. So they obviously endorse his values. But I feel like I’m not sure what the future holds really in all instances. However, in terms of the conversation about misogyny, I doubt very much whether Donald Trump is interested in representing women’s rights. So you have to see, take the positive from it, that there are bound to be a kind of raised awareness among women that we will galvanise, we will respond to anything that is hugely inappropriate.

Cathy Newman: I wonder how much you think attitudes have changed because you look at young girls, for example, and you find them very ready to speak out when they see something wrong, you know, to call it out. You look at young boys, though, and I wonder about their role models. They’re going online, they’ve got the Tate brothers, with their particular brand of misogyny. Is there a sort of divergence there? And how do we tackle that?

Annie Lennox: Clearly, from just what you’ve described, it’s a complete divergence. And then you just get this polarisation where there is one almost set against the other. And I think from from a global feminist perspective, it’s all about education. It’s all about showing people, showing young people, that there’s a better way of treating girls and women. But we’re up against a lot because, you know, this phenomena of the internet and the dark net is so powerful that we have to learn to have better ways to deal with what is going on.

It’s actually a mindset, you know, that is where the change first needs to come. It starts with the conversation. You go into education and then you want to see a transformative change. Mind you, I am personally deeply committed to the welfare of girls and women everywhere around the globe. And that is for me why I describe myself as a global feminist.

Cathy Newman: Your message to her personally, if she was here now.

Annie Lennox: I’m so proud of her. I’m in awe. I’m really deeply touched and in awe. And I just look at her as an exceptional person. She’s not an ordinary woman any more. She’s an exceptional person. And I’d like to say that I wish that all women that are suffering with this, and they know who they are, I feel so strongly for you, I feel that you are suffering. Women are suffering, and it seems that society is just ignoring, ignoring.

But I’m hoping that eventually, you know, we can actually succeed in making transformative change, changing the minds and practices of young men and young women, too. You know, we need to protect ourselves. We need to know our rights. So I’m very excited that new generation of women are really seeing their rights. But the work needs to be done, from my perspective, the work needs to be done with young men and urgently so. It’s an urgent situation.