Police action against Church of England ‘must be considered’, says review’s author

The Archbishop of Canterbury will step aside from his official duties by January 6th – the Day of Epiphany.

He resigned in the wake of a report into serial abuse by Christian summer camp leader John Smyth, who was first unmasked by this programme.

The Makin review was ordered as a result and its author, Keith Makin, went on to conclude that Smyth was the ‘most prolific abuser to be associated with the Church of England’.

We sat down with Keith Makin for his first interview since his report was published.  I began by asking him what he thought about the impact of his report.

Keith Makin: I have to say I’m very pleased with the impact it’s having. There’s two things I wanted the report to achieve, and one is to get the victims’ message across firmly. I’ve threaded through the report the victims’ experiences and that has come across very strongly. And also to have an impact and to help to bring about change within the church procedures. And I think both those things have been achieved.

Cathy Newman: Amongst the impact, of course, was the resignation of Justin Welby. Was it the right decision for him to resign, do you think?

Keith Makin: I think from the victims’ point of view, the feedback I’ve had – I’m in touch with a number of victims – is that they thought it was the right outcome, really.

Cathy Newman: If you look at the criticism in your report, you know, former archbishop, multiple bishops, senior clergy, some of them criticised much more severely than Justin Welby. And yet I don’t see anything happening to any of them. Does that suggest that the church is still in some denial in its response?

Keith Makin: I think one of the issues is the church – and to use a colloquialism – the church is marking its own homework. I think church officials have been aware of the issues I’ve been raising. I did report in several people during the course of the review happening. They were aware of issues. They’ve looked at those issues, but they have not been effective, in my opinion, in bringing about change.

Cathy Newman: Let me pick up on one of the bishops who you raised serious concerns about, and that’s the former Bishop of Ely, now Lincoln, Stephen Conway. You said he was in, and I quote, ‘a potentially powerful position to explore concerns about Smyth further, to reinforce the referral to South Africa, to ensure that a police referral had been made.’ But he showed, in your words, again, ‘complacency in his handling of the issue’. No formal referral to the police was made. Expand on that. How big a failing has there been in that case?

Keith Makin: The problem was that a process didn’t start into exploring whether John Smyth still posed a threat in South Africa.

Cathy Newman: Quantify that, how big a failing is that on the part of someone who is a senior leader in the church?

Keith Makin: I would say in terms of not bringing John Smyth to justice much earlier than the start of the police investigation, much earlier than actually happened, which is far too late – in those terms – yes, a serious failing.

Cathy Newman: A serious failing. And if there had been a kind of consistent approach taken, if what the Archbishop of Canterbury did or didn’t do was sufficient to merit his resignation, what the Bishop of Lincoln, previously Ely, did or didn’t do should have prompted the same resignation, shouldn’t it?

Keith Makin: I think it could be argued there’s a logic to that, yes. But I’ve got to stress, my report didn’t make recommendations on that.

Cathy Newman: You don’t make recommendations on that, no, absolutely. A lot of people have said to me, based on what your report unearthed and the devastating nature of what you found, that the police should be called in over anyone who helped cover this scandal up. Is that appropriate, in your view? Are there grounds for that or does the law at the time not allow for that?

Keith Makin: I think we’re looking at a big span of time, and I do think that there needs to be consideration given as to whether police action needs to be taken. I actually don’t know the answer to that.

Cathy Newman: But you’d like that to be considered?

Keith Makin: I think it must be considered, yes.

Cathy Newman: There’s also allegations in recent days, from a former vicar abused as a teenager by a priest, that the Archbishop of York, who’s the number two in the church, obviously, Stephen Cottrell, also presided over a cover-up. And the archbishop denies the allegations. But survivors say this is part and parcel of what is needed, a huge sort of overhaul of church culture. Do you agree on that point that the Archbishop of Canterbury’s resignation is just the start of this kind of clear-out?

Keith Makin: I think the church does need to look very carefully at absolutely everything within its remit. I’m not in a position really to comment on any individuals within that. But if these same kinds of conditions apply to any other senior official, you know, bishop or whatever within the church, then yes, the same should unfold.

Cathy Newman: So anyone in the church, however senior or junior, who’s been involved in a cover-up, needs to to get out, basically?

Keith Makin: I think it needs to be taken very seriously and to be examined – the appropriate action taken. And in some cases, yes, that may include then having to step down.

Cathy Newman: If this was any other organisational institution, if someone had combined to cover up abuse of this nature, they would resign, wouldn’t they?

Keith Makin: I think there would be an expectation of resignation, yes.