‘Justin Welby was absolutely right to resign’ says Dean of Chapel at King’s College Cambridge

We spoke to Reverend Doctor Stephen Cherry, Dean of Chapel at King’s College, Cambridge.

Cathy Newman: Was Justin Welby right to quit or was he, as some say, hounded out by his opponents in the church?

Stephen Cherry: I think he was absolutely right to resign today. I rather wish he’d resigned when the report first came out. My own feelings about this were quite strong when I saw that interview with you last Thursday. And I thought that the archbishop looked extremely uncomfortable and that he was right to have considered resigning then. And I’m very sorry that he was advised by others that this wouldn’t be the best step to take.

Cathy Newman: Do you think other resignations should follow, as Mark Stibbe, one of Smyth’s victims, just said? And given that so many bishops, for example, have been criticised in the Makin Review?

Stephen Cherry: I’m not quick to make up my mind on this subject. I wasn’t rapid to make up my mind with regard to where the archbishop stood. But I actually think that there’s a difference between the position of the Archbishop of Canterbury, because he has a very singular particular representative role and with so much concern about the quality of his decision making, his pastoral judgement in the way in which he related to victim groups, it wasn’t tenable for him to remain in that position.

I think the question about other characters is more forensic and more particular, and I think they need to consider whether or not making a statement of what they’ve done and expressing sorrow, is a sufficient statement to those who have been harmed. And I think it’s very important with these apologies that are coming, is the question who are they aimed at? Who is going to receive the apology? It has to be the victims. And one has to monitor the way in which the victims respond, the victims’ voice in this is much more important than voices like mine.

Cathy Newman: Of course, the victims, seven years ago, told me what was going on. Turned out the church had known for far longer than that. So these apologies now are rather late in the day, aren’t they? If you look at, for example, the Bishop of Lincoln, who was the Bishop of Ely, he got a report from a survivor that I spoke to in my piece tonight, Graham, back in 2012. He got that report and only now is he issuing this statement saying sorry. He should consider his position, shouldn’t he?

Stephen Cherry: Cathy, I wanted to say in the course of this interview, just to pay respect to the work that you’ve done, because this is extremely unpleasant work to be doing and engaging with, because I think you’ve taken very seriously the actual pain of real people. And I think that that’s what is required of people in leadership, in the church.

Cathy Newman: But Mark Stibbe talked about resignations and reformation. It sounds to me that you’re saying, this is it now. Justin Welby has resigned. That’s it. No one else needs to go. So what about reformation then? Should handling church abuse allegations be taken away from the bishops who really haven’t shown themselves fit to handle it?

Stephen Cherry: Yeah, I completely agree with that point. But the particular one with which you ended, that there must be an independent way of dealing with these matters which doesn’t end up in some way or other with the top being a bishop. It has to be independent. This would be true of any organisation. We can’t have people marking their own homework and making their own decisions about their own performance in these kinds of areas. That absolutely needs to happen. I believe it will happen. I think it’s not quite straightforward to know how it will happen, but I believe that will be a consequence.

I also think the more general point about reformation is it’s a big word to use, but I think it’s absolutely the right word to use. We must remember that these problems that we’re dealing with now that have come to full light in the report that came out last week, they’re not just an isolated individual and it’s not just one individual who hasn’t coped well. These are systemic, deep problems that have developed over a long period of time. And when a church begins to recognise that something about its tradition isn’t serving it, then it must begin to go into a process of radical change. And it isn’t possible to say at the outset how that will wind up.