Krishnan Guru-Murthy: What is your big, deep fear of what will happen now.
Vava Tampa: The killings and raping and the displacement of more millions of people across the country. We’ve already seen Goma currently has about 200-300,000 people displaced. Across North Kivu we have over a million and a half people displaced. The ongoing conflict, the violence we are witnessing, Rwandan troops killing and raping women is going to displace more and more people.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: In the past, we have seen horrific, massive refugee camps in this region. Is that where they are going again? I mean, what’s happening to these hundreds of thousands of people who are on the move?
Vava Tampa: What we’ve witnessed over the past 12 months, particularly, are those refugee camps being attacked, being bombed by troops from Kigali. And we have to remember Krishnan, this is a crisis. This is a conflict which could have been prevented. There is no one at the FCO today who doesn’t know about the crisis in Congo. David Lammy is well-versed on this crisis. So is the minister for Africa, Lord Collins of Highbury, he really knows the crisis, knows exactly what needs to be done. But somehow, for reasons unknown to us, no one in the UK seems to do anything.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Well, what is your suspicion? I mean, Paul Kagame specifically is close to the British government, has been for a long time. Rwanda is a big partner of this government in all sorts of respects. But what do you think’s really going on?
Vava Tampa: Well, absolutely. Look, the M23 could not have killed, raped, displaced as many people as they have, without direct support from Kigali. That is a fact which is known. Similarly, Kigali could not have continued to cause so much killing, so much violence, so much crisis in the DRC without money coming from London, without guns coming from us, without the UK protecting Kigali and training some of its military even here at Sandhurst. So these are real reasons why the UK isn’t doing anything regarding Kagame.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: But we have seen horrific killing by the Hutus in the past.
Vava Tampa: Absolutely.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: And Rwanda says there is persecution going on. Is there?
Vava Tampa: Well, that’s a lie.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: …of Tutsis in Congo.
Vava Tampa: A complete, utter lie. I challenge anyone to bring us a single evidence of any attack against any Tutsi group in Congo over the past 12 months or over the past 12 years, in fact. Tshisekedi, the current leadership in Congo, isn’t perfect. It has made a lot of mistakes. But one thing I know with certainty is that he has worked, he has tried, he has reached out to Kigali to ensure that we address these crises.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So do you think this is economic? This is about cobalt and…
Vava Tampa: Absolutely Krishnan. Look, Kigali makes – the M23 makes – about $300,000, just about £285,000 a month from simply taxing miners, people mining cassiterite, coltan and gold in Congo. And now they have taken Goma we suspect it will be making in the region of £1-2 million a month. Now, if Kigali is only making about £2 million a month from those taxes, the question that needs to be asked is – what is the UK making, for the UK to continue to remain quiet and to continue to fund and support Kigali – in spite of the killings and the raping that we are witnessing?