Miguel Berger: I think, as you say, it’s a very important day, 80 years since the liberation of the Auschwitz extermination camp. And in Germany we have over the years built up really a culture of remembrance, which means not only to accept Germany’s historic responsibility for the Nazi atrocities and crimes, but also to work towards a better future in the sense that we want to stand up for democracy, for rule of law, for human rights, not only in Germany, but everywhere.
Matt Frei: We’ll get to those universal values in a minute. But just on the Holocaust itself, although Germany has been teaching schoolchildren and the public has been educated about the horrors of the Holocaust, the statistics today are quite alarming, aren’t they? I think 1 in 9 children didn’t even know there was such a thing as a Holocaust. A quarter can’t name a single concentration or extermination camp. That wasn’t part of the plan, was it?
Miguel Berger: Yeah, you are right, Matt, in the sense that the survey shows that it’s a constant work to educate new generations. And the survivors have played a very important role because there is nothing as to listen to a survivor, his individual story, about the horror they went through. And now that, regrettably, the memory of the survivors is fading away, we need to find new ways for education. But Matt, on the other side, let’s see that eight out of nine Germans know about the Holocaust – also gives me some hope. But it will be a continuing task of education, not only in Germany, I think in many other countries, too.
Matt Frei: I wonder to what extent the remembrance of the Holocaust is also complicated by the political landscape in Europe, but especially in Germany. Is there a danger that Holocaust denial is creeping into German politics?
Miguel Berger: I hope we can avoid Holocaust denial coming into politics. We have to stand up against any attempts to try to draw a line under the Holocaust and under this history. We have to stand up against these attempts and put our focus on democratic education and to fight back against those people who think that they can reduce that, as you said, to a small episode in German history. It is not. And I know that the vast, vast majority of Germans see it the same way as I do – as a constant task of education and remembrance.
Matt Frei: So in the middle of this very febrile political atmosphere that you have in Germany, you have Elon Musk, who, of course, we know has a thing about our prime minister here in Britain, but he’s also been incredibly rude about your chancellor, Olaf Scholz. And has been campaigning openly for the AfD to win these elections – in an extraordinarily brazen way. What is your message tonight to Elon Musk?
Miguel Berger: Let me say about, you know, opinions like the ones – or the rallies of Elon Musk supporting the AfD. He is free as any other person to voice his opinion. The concern in German politics, and I think in others too, is when algorithms are manipulated or used to strengthen it, to reinforce hate messages or conspiracy theories, or favouring one political party over others. If that would happen, then we would see this as an interference in our democracy and in our electoral system.
Matt Frei: Well, given the world of today, given what’s been happening in Gaza in the last 15 months, there are many people who say that Germany has been so supportive of the Israeli government, it has failed to condemn acts that many people would describe as genocide or violence against innocent Palestinian civilians when they occur.
Miguel Berger: Germany has been very critical of the humanitarian situation in Gaza. But Matt I would really not like to mix up the horrors of the Holocaust with the very dire and difficult situation in Gaza. For us in Germany, it has been so important to see that Jewish life has come back to our country. And we see it as a task and as a result of the Holocaust that we have to stand up against not only anti-Semitism, but all forms of racism and hatred. And that’s what we try to do – and also in situations of conflict around the world. I’m worried about attempts to trivialise the Holocaust or to call everything that happens, terrible things that happen in the world, immediately a genocide. So we have to be very careful about our language. I would not like to mix up the Holocaust with any other international event or war that is taking place.