Interview with Kevin Gale

Kevin was one of two survivors from a group of four that became lost in the Amazon.

Age: 54

Occupation: Fitness room manager

How long did it take you to recover from the physical and mental trauma of your ordeal?

A week after my rescue from the jungle, I had returned to La Paz and started to organize a rescue party for Yossi. I knew that I was fortunate to be alive. I was feeling anxiety about the thought of going back into the jungle and so I guess I was a little mentally traumatized. I was able to walk by then but with some difficulty. The thought of what would happen if I got stranded again in the jungle due to another accident with my feet still recovering from the jungle ordeal gave me a good reason to be concerned.

From the time that I was found and rescued in the jungle, my feet physically recovered after two weeks. Four weeks after my rescue, I entered the jungle with three Israeli volunteers and a local guide to search for Markus and Karl. I didn't feel any anxiety or mental trauma for my well being during the search for Markus and Karl.

Has the experience changed you?

Yes, but not in the way you might expect. I met my wife Orna as a result of this experience. She had volunteered with two other Israeli men to join the search and rescue party for Markus and Karl. I have been living in Israel for over 20 years and so this jungle experience did change my life.

How often do you think about it?

Initially, after experiencing a life or death experience, of course your thoughts are never very far away from those memories. But with the passing of time and a growing family that occupied my life, those memories became more and more distant.

As the years passed which I could gauge as the boys grew up, I would seldom find myself thinking about the jungle experience. But whenever December 1st of each calendar year would roll around, that date would awaken memories of our jungle experience. December 1st 1981 was the date that we separated on the river into two groups, each going to its own fate. Karl and Markus had decided on the less dangerous hike back to civilization while Yossi and I chose the more dangerous route on the river and to continue with our rafting adventure.

I do have to say, that since I have been involved with the documentary project of the jungle survival story this past year and a half, I have in a way relived it once again. I have tried to understand once again exactly what Yossi, Markus and I passed during that month we spent together in the jungle.

How soon did you go back into the jungle?

About two weeks after I had been rescued, I entered the jungle on a boat looking for Yossi. A month after my rescue, I entered the jungle on an overland expedition for 18 days.

Many people in your situation experience 'survivor's guilt', have you felt this?

I didn't feel guilty that I survived. Karl had decided to hike out of the jungle. The nearest village was less than 20 miles away. He was an expert in the jungle. I didn't think that Karl and Markus's hike out of the jungle was dangerous. I wanted to continue on the raft some 100 miles through a primitive jungle where I knew that we would be on our own if we encountered problems (with the exception of San José village). I knew that our way out of the jungle because of the distance and unknowns was inexplicably more difficult and dangerous.

I have often thought that if we hadn't separated in the jungle, for which I am responsible, and if we had all hiked out together, it would have been a different story. I think that we would have all survived. I think the most likely reason that Karl and Markus didn't make it out of the jungle is probably due to an accident crossing the Ipurama River. They were hiking up it after leaving our last group campsite on the Tuiche River with the intention of reaching the Ipurama village in the jungle mountain hills.

I crossed the Ipurama River repeatedly on the rescue attempt looking for Markus and Karl. More than once, a member of my rescue party endangered themselves by choosing a poor portage (crossing) point on the swift and rising river due to the winter rains. It was their lack of experience that led them to make poor choices. It is very likely that is what happened to Karl. He would have had no choice but to portage back and forth across the Ipurama as he and Markus attempted to hike upriver. You would come to a cliff and have no choice but to cross to the other side to avoid doing a lot of backtracking that would involve entering the jungle and making a long roundabout hike.

Did you go back to look for Markus and Karl?

Yes, I returned to the jungle to look for Markus and Karl with three Israeli volunteers and a local guide. Two of the three volunteers didn't make it the entire way. After five days of hiking in very wet, cold and muddy conditions, we (Eres the Israeli volunteer, Max the guide and myself) reached the village of Ipurama – the destination of Karl and Mark.

We asked if the villagers had seen Karl and Markus. The answer was negative (they had actually never seen anyone but locals there). We descended from the top of the high jungle ridge down steep banks until we found the Ipurama River. We followed along the Ipurama River for five days, crossing back and forth whenever we came to cliffs that made our progress impossible without portaging to the other bank on the opposite side of the river. We finally arrived to our last group campsite on the Tuiche River. It had been washed away due to the winter flooding. But it was without a doubt where we had spent our last nights together. We didn't see any signs of Markus or Karl.

Do you keep in touch with Yossi?

I see Yossi whenever he comes to Israel, usually once or twice a year. We also keep in touch with an occasional e-mail.

Have you and Yossi been close as a result of your experiences; in the end you saved his life?

Yossi and I share an experience that obviously bonds us together in an inexplicable way. We'll always share that unique experience. We are two very different people but we have been close all these years because of that unique bonding experience.

Do you think it was your mental attitude that enabled you to survive out there?

My experience in nature helped me survive in the jungle. I remained calm. I didn't waste energy needlessly. I always knew where the river, my lifeline, was. I helped myself whenever the opportunities presented themselves. And perhaps the most important element or factor was luck. Without it, I might not be alive today.

Do you still have an involvement with the Amazon?

No.

Do you have any advice for someone who would like to explore the Amazon rainforest for themselves?

I would suggest that you look for a certified guide whose background you can confirm and check.

Proper survival equipment for each participant is a given – bug repellant, antibacterial cream, a lighter (to start fires), a mirror (to reflect sunlight to attract attention from passing planes), fish hooks and line, knife, map, compass, survival blanket (aluminum foil – it's cold in the winter during the nights) and a bright-colored poncho (for protection from downpours and also to signal planes from beaches). These items would fit into a small bag.

The guide should tell each person exactly what he or she would do if they would find themselves lost alone in the jungle. Stay put or work your way down or up river. Finally, all the relevant information should be left with the proper authorities so that they can initiate a search at the earliest possible time.

If a person should find himself or herself lost, the most important thing to do is to think positive and don't panic. You will have to trust yourself.

Interview with Yossi Ghinsberg

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