An extensive interview with Julie Walters about her life in acting and her compelling performance as Mo Mowlam.
You went into acting very much against your mothers wishes, didn't you?
Yes, yes, she was very much frightened by it. She didn’t know what I was talking about. People that we knew didn’t go into acting. 'She's been watching too much television,' is what she said. 'She'll be in the gutter before she's 20.' She was very scared, she thought there was no pension. Nowadays people are quite pleased not to have a pension! So she was against it, but eventually when she realised I could make a living from it and I did have a pension she was alright with it.
Why were you so drawn to it, in the face of such opposition?
It’s very hard to say; it’s a mixture of a million things. I don’t think there’s any one reason. I think it’s genetic; my grandfather would have been an actor - he recreated and performed famous court cases locally in Ireland - and my uncle directed amateur dramatics in Ireland, it’s in the family. That, mixed with a need to be seen and heard somewhere, to get something of you out there, for people to believe it and see it.
Were you a precocious child who was always performing and stealing the limelight at family occasions?
I was a bit like that, I was a mixture. I think a lot of actors are. I was sort of shy and under-confident, but I also had that thing of being the class clown and the person who impersonated people in the family and at school. So it was a mixture of the two, one compensated for the other.
Do you think you had a specific breakthrough role in your career?
I think there was a breakthrough period where I did Educating Rita and Victoria Wood’s work very close together. I'd just started to be known through Victoria's stuff with Wood and Walters, which came out very close to Educating Rita. It was quite a grand slam in a way for me, really useful for me doing those two things. And at the same time I started to do something with Alan Bennett, I did a play with Alan Bennett in it on television, and also Boys from the Black Stuff. It all came out in a short space of time.
What was the experience like to be suddenly become a recognised face? Was that quite bizarre? It was, and at first I thought, 'It means I must be good, a marvellous actor.' And of course it doesn’t mean that, it just means that your face has been on television. You soon live to partly regret being recognised - not all the time, because people come up and are really lovely, and that is nice, people coming up and saying 'I saw that' and whatever. But until you've lost anonymity you don’t realise how precious it is. Everything you do is suddenly open to scrutiny. So yes, it was bizarre, and hard to get everything into perspective.
You mention Victoria Wood. You and she have had a great creative partnership over the years. Do you still love working with her?
Oh yeah. She is in a class of her own in terms writing comic stuff - especially sketches - they are brilliant. There is lots of really funny stuff on television but in terms of the sketch, most people have never really done it like her. Nobody has, no one - they are little masterpieces. I just did a special with her about the women who plays Miss Overall. The 'actress' who plays her - it’s a week in her life called ‘Beyond the Marigolds’. It is heaven, it's so funny. It’s like a study in self delusion. It's just brilliant. I'm getting to go on the ice with Torvill and Dean and dancing with Anton Dubeck - Tony Beak as he’s really called. She’s just really, really special, nobody’s like her at all. She’s very, very unusual and it’s a very special relationship.
Who else have you particularly enjoyed co-starring with over the years?
Alan Bennett, I loved doing the film I did with him, and working with him on the monologues [Talking Heads] that was fabulous. In Mo, Gary Lewis, was a big favourite for me. I love him, and he was also in Billy Elliott, playing Billy's father, and I knew him from then, he’s a really lovely man. There are loads of people, all the Calendar Girls, I loved being with them, Helen and everyone; I felt very fond of Helen. I don’t want to miss anyone out! All of them really. I’ve enjoyed most people I’ve worked with. I’ve rarely thought ‘Oh my God’ get me away from this person!' That’s been a real rarity. I think that happened once, and I’m not going to say who that was.
Maggie Smith recently said that she suddenly feels crippled by stage fright. Do you ever get nervous before filming or going out on stage?
Everybody does, unless you’re mad, I think, because you’re up for instant appraisal of some sort when you go on stage. You’re putting your neck on the line no matter what. When I first started I was kind of innocent, but then you realise people criticise what you do and then it gets a bit scary. First nights were scary then, but they're not as scary now. I still get nervous though. I was nervous about Mo, actually. When I got the script I thought 'fabulous, this is such a good script, I’ll do it.' Then I got all the research stuff on her and I thought 'God I’m nothing like this women at all and she’s got this strange voice. How am I ever going to embody that?' Then I rang my agent and said 'I’m not sure I should do this. I cannot be anything like her.' He said 'Julie, I’ve never said this to you before but I’m going to say it to you now: that is a load of bollocks. Get the wig and the glasses and you’ll be fine.' The thing I’m proudest of in terms of that is actually getting my head round those nerves and thinking 'No, I’m going to go for it.' And I said to Grant [her husband] 'Bloody hell, Grant,' and he said 'It's your Mo, people know that. People know you and they know her, and they’re not expecting you to have plastic surgery and have different eyes put in. They have to take it that it is your version of her.' So I said yes, ok.
It is often said that there aren’t that many great roles for actresses after a certain age, but your roles seem to have got more interesting the longer your career has gone on.
Definitely more interesting! I think anything that features a middle-aged, or late middle-aged women has got to be interesting because it's not about normal stuff that people go to see in the cinema, its not Marley and Me or whatever. It’s going to be something of interest.
I was struck by looking through your back catalogue. There can’t have been many women who’ve played both Cynthia Payne and Mary Whitehouse. Which one do you think you’ve had more in common with?
Oh my god! I think I’ve got a bit of both of them. I’m not like either of them but I identified with both of them.
What roles have meant the most to you over your career.
It is hard to say… Miss Overall, I have terribly affectionate feelings for her. Obviously Educating Rita meant a huge amount to me as I had spent a lot of my life doing it, on stage as well as the film. And it was massive, as suddenly I was in the film business. Then there were other roles like Anne Turner and Mo, and special women who had been real. I did something called Ahead of the Class which was about Marie Stubbs, who took over St Georges, where Philip Lawrence had been murdered. They had got her out of retirement, and I just found her so inspiring. So that was a special experience. Then there's all of Vic’s stuff, basically. And Alan Bennett’s and Alan Bleasdale's.
You live on a working farm. Do you take an active role in that?
Only in the discussion of the running of it, and the staffing and things like that, we discuss it endlessly - 99.9% is about what's happened. It’s like a soap. 'What happened today?' 'So-and-so has gone and done this…' I love it!
It sounds like having your own version of The Archers.
Yes, it is! So much so that Grant thought there was a mole on the farm giving them plot tips. He thought they were copying us.
Are you ever temped to jack-in the acting and just go and run the farm and live a different life?
I'm tempted towards it, but not to totally giving it up. If someone said I would never act again, at first I'd be appalled, because that's how I’ve expressed myself all these years, but then I think I’d be ok. I mean, I like growing vegetables and growing tomatoes and being at home and being domestic and just tootling along and doing things. I'd do a bit of writing and things if I couldn’t act. I think there would always have to be some kind of creative thing, I’m that sort of person. And I like the thought of being at home for months on end. I like to have a family life. Ever since I’ve had a family , I’ve never wanted to be away for any length of time.
In being so protective of your free time, you must think very carefully before accepting a role. What attracted you to playing Mo?
It’s really well written, and written because someone really wanted to write about her. There’s nothing formulaic about it. She’s a really interesting women, it’s very well written, and I knew her. I didn’t know her personally, but I knew who she was, what she sounded like and so on. All the other real people I've played I didn’t know. It was a challenge, a huge challenge. We look nothing alike - she was a big, big woman, in every sense. She put a lot of weight on because she was ill, she was tall, and it was a huge challenge physically to get inside who she was. It was fascinating, everyone has got a view on her, everybody remembers her, even people who weren’t interested in politics. I asked Grant what he remembered about her, and he said 'She was like a hockey mistress.' That wasn't my memory of her at all, but he was right. There is a hockey mistress element to her. 'Come on everybody, we’re going to do this now!' She loved all that, and loved hockey, funnily enough. And I said 'What was her voice like?' because I didn't remember how she spoke, and Grant said 'Well, it's kind of squeaky.' I said 'Don’t be silly. Mo?' And they got all these videos of her together for me, and there she was with this voice. And I thought 'Bloody hell. I’ll ruin my voice doing it.' It’s better now but for months a whole piece of my vocal chords had closed down because I didn’t warm up like I would have if I had been singing.
You mention everyone knew her, even people who weren’t interested in politics, and pretty much everyone loved her. What was it about her?
People thought they were getting straight talk from her, and she genuinely cared about ordinary folk. She genuinely did, and they knew that. And they’re so used to politicians out for their careers, so she just stuck out. And she was so uninhibited, partly because of the tumour, but it was all part of her. They reckon that she had that tumour for thirty years and then suddenly it went out of control. She was very, very straight and she was very bright, so she could argue and cut through the crap - and politicians don’t - and she would say it like it is: 'Fuck it, yes!' and 'No I don’t have any knickers on.' It was all that sort of talk. Nothing was out of bounds for her. And so I think people would feel safe, and some people would feel threatened by that. I think people would fall into two categories. I think at the time some sections of the press were vile about her and now, of course, it will all be 'Lovely Mo' because she died and battled with the tumour. Most people loved her, but there were a lot of people that didn’t at the time.
Are you particularly political?
I vote, and we talk about it, and I'm very angry with Blair about Iraq and the lies - I think that's one of the most appalling things in any government that I know of. We were forced into a war through lies. So I'm interested in it all, but that's about as far as it goes. The economy I find very difficult. I don't really understand it, Grant's always having to explain it to me.
Mo's got a fantastic cast, hasn't it? You're working with some great people.
Oh they're fantastic. Steven Mackintosh is brilliant as Peter Mandelson. Mandelson is so lucky to have someone so good-looking playing him!
At the centre of the whole thing is Mo's marriage. Her husband is played by David Haig. They were very much in love, weren't they?
Yeah, they were. They were shagging all the time! Her ‘non-wanker-banker’ husband, she used to called him. David Haig is absolutely wonderful in the role, he's such a good actor.
It's by no means a film just for those interested in politics, is it?
Definitely not! It's a very human story, this film. The politics is interesting, but it's almost in the background, eclipsed by Mo. Which everything was. She was this tornado that went through life with everything else happening around her. It's about who she was, it's about her love for her husband, it's about caring for people, it's about dealing with the tumour, it's about her courage. But it's not sentimental, that's why it's special.
It's not a part for an actress to play if she's particularly vain, is it?
No! But then she wasn't vain herself at all. No interest in clothes or anything like that.
It's not the most elegant role you'll ever play.
No. But then I'm not usually cast in elegant roles. I don't know why! No, that doesn't bother me. I liked that side of her. It made her more interesting, in many ways.
You've died quite a lot recently.
I know, it did occur to me, I was a bit worried. I hope I don't catch it! My agent did ask if I was all right with it, having just done A Short Stay in Switzerland. I thought, 'This is a good script. I can't turn it down just because it has me dying again.'
Does playing a role where you're dying take an emotional toll on you?
Playing Anne Turner did. It took me a long time to recover from it, really. It was exhausting playing someone who was in that state. Mo is a much jollier film, it's very funny. She's up and funny and chipper - it's not someone who has to go to their death and say goodbye to their children. That's what was so unbearably painful about Dr Turner's situation. Whereas Mo gradually lost it. There's something kind about that, almost.
The film seems to indicate that Mo had doubts near the end about the success and importance of her political legacy.
Oh, I think she did. It's heartbreaking. She felt that she'd been dumped by Blair. She hadn't, really. He had to do it. But that sense of grievance was fed by her husband. He kept telling her Blair had got rid of her because she was so popular, which wasn't the case. And it's so sad that she doubted how important her role was in bringing peace to Northern Ireland. I don't think they'd have got there without her. I really don't. And yes, Blair had to go in at the end to deal with Trimble and so on, he had to. But her role was so important. And the people loved her.
You filmed on location at Hillsborough Castle and Stormont. Did you feel the sense of history there? Does it help when you're filming where the real events took place?
Oh yeah, definitely. And with Hillsborough I also had this documentary that Granada had shot, which was brilliant because they kept the camera rolling all the time, so you got her between takes talking about having lunch and all her unguarded moments. So I was able to get a real feel for her. And it also showed her taking the cameras round the castle, and talking about it, and where they used to sit and which bits they did and didn't use. And then there's Stormont. It's a really impressive bit of architecture. Talk about 'We are in charge of you!' Bloody hell. When you get up there and you go out on the front steps, everything else is down below you.
Was there an element of the role having a bit more poignancy for you because of your Irish heritage?
Well, my mother was from the south, but yes, a little bit. Because she used to go on about the absentee landlords, and how the Irish were starving while they were living the high life. She'd get angry about it sometimes. So yes, I do feel that a bit.
Did you get a feel from the people in Northern Ireland about their feelings towards Mo?
I didn't meet that many. You'd meet a crowd when you were in the street, and they'd say 'Oh, we loved her!' And what was sweet was meeting all the disabled kids at Struell Lodge, where she was a patron. They were all great, they were all shouting 'Mo! Mo!' and a couple of them gave me a hug, thinking she was back. They loved her, she just used to pop in there all the time.
What image were you left with of Mo? What was she like? There were aspects of her that were difficult, weren't there?
Well, yes, there were - mostly to do with her uninhibitedness. Things like showing her knickers - she did that a lot. And often without any on. In the House of Commons, at the benches opposite, or so I heard. I don't know if that's true. But that sort of thing is hard, I felt for her. But the image I'm left with is of her being the MP for Redcar, and the way she dealt with people. Laughing with everyone and being right at the heart of the community. And her courage, as well. Not just with her illness, but as a person. She's upfront, take me or leave me. I tell the truth. And some people didn't like that. David Trimble didn't, but the Sinn Fein guys did, by all accounts.
In your canon of work, where does this sit?
I'm really thrilled to have been part of it. I haven't watched it yet, I'm frightened to, a bit. It's such a thing, I don't know, physically and everything. I'm frightened that I'll look at it and think 'No. I don't believe me.' But where does it sit? I don't know. I wouldn't like to say. But it's very precious. Because she was very precious.
Interview by Benjie Goodhart
