Michael Howard Interview
Updated on 04 May 2005
In an interview tonight with Channel 4 News, Michael Howard denounced the NHS as Stalinist.
"It was Stalin who set targets, you may recall. Stalin's system was based entirely on targets. That's exactly what the present Government is doing." - Michael Howard, Channel 4 News 4th May 2005
Mr Howard said the Tory Party had changed and that it believed in investment in essential public services such as health and education.
Asked if he still thought the NHS was a "Stalinist centralised bureaucratic system" that had failed the country, he replied: "That's exactly what it is at the moment."
He added: "It was Stalin who set targets, you may recall. Stalin's system was based entirely on targets. That's exactly what the present Government is doing."
He said a Conservative government would scrap targets, give hospitals more freedom and patients the right to go to any NHS hospital in the country.
"That will get away from the Stalinist system that we have now," he said. Mr Howard dismissed criticism by CBI director general Sir Digby Jones of Conservative plans to impose annual quotas on the numbers of immigrants coming into Britain.
"He sometimes gets things right, sometimes gets it wrong. Not a hero of mine," he said.
Click on the next link to read more of the interview.
"It was Stalin who set targets, you may recall. Stalin's system was based entirely on targets. That's exactly what the present Government is doing." - Michael Howard, Channel 4 News 4th May 2005
Snow: If we are on the NHS have you changed what you said to the FT when you said this is a Stalinist, centralised, bureaucratic system that fails Britain?
Howard: "That is exactly what it is at the moment. It was Stalin who set targets you may recall. Stalin's system was based entirely on targets and that is exactly what the present government is doing. The things which are not covered by the targets suffer because professionals are not allowed to exercise their judgement. That's why we'd get rid of the targets, we'd trust the professionals and have the kind of health service which the fourth richest country in the world deserves."
Snow: But in your own bid for leadership of this party you said, in a rather moving speech, in which you said you would pledge new politics, that people were fed up of the old party political system that you would give the government credit when credit was due, and you wouldn't oppose just for opposition's sake. Now what credit can you give to the government for what they've done for the National Health service. Have they done nothing good?
Howard: "Very little. They've spent a lot of money and they've wasted it."
Snow: Nothing you can say they have done on cancer care, new hospitals or any of these things?
Howard: "Cancer care was improving. There are endless studies which show that the rate of improvement in Health Care was actually faster before 1997 than it's been since. Of course cancer care improves over the years. The question is what return have we had for the enormous amount of money that has been put into the Health Service. And because so much of it has been wasted on bureaucracy and because the government has been obsessed with these targets, we don't have the health care system that the fourth richest in the country in the world is entitled to."
Snow: But if the health system is a Stalinist, centralised, bureaucratic failure to the state, what is the odd clean up of a hospital and a few private operations going to do about it?
Howard: "You talk about the odd clean up of a hospital when more people die of hospital acquired infections in this country.
"Look, my mother-in-law died of a hospital acquired infection and there are millions of people out there who are desparately worried about hospital acquired infections and for you to dismiss it as one clean up of a hospital ..it is not a picture people out there will recognise."
Snow: When you go to the doctor's surgery, are they really seeing Stalin up on the wall?
Howard: Yes, well we know exactly what is happening when they try to go to their GP surgery. They can't book an appointment because of the new targets the government has set about not waiting more than 48 hours.
"Mr Blair who put this system in place appeared shocked last week when this was put to him. A few months back everyone was being told the Prime Minister knew about this, the Prime Minister was taking action about this. Last week he said he didn't know anything about it.
"So yes, these Stalin targets are getting in the way of people having access to their GPs. Now I'll tell you what we will do. We will scrap the targets, we will trust the professionals, we will actually give hospitals more freedom and we'll give patients choice, including the right of any NHS patient to go to any NHS hospital in the country straight away, that will free it up, that will get away from the Stalinist system we now have."
