Interview with released terror suspect
Updated on 19 July 2009
Arrested by armed officers on suspicion of terrorism, then held for three months in a high-security jail, a Pakistani student rounded up in April as part of an alleged terror plot has spoken exclusively to Channel 4 News about his ordeal.
Janus Khan was one of 12 students arrested in a police swoop suddenly brought forward after former anti-terrorism chief Bob Quick was photographed in Downing Street with documents revealing details of the operation.
No charges have been brought, and Janus Khan was told on Friday that he was no longer considered a threat to national security.
But he is still being made to wear an electronic tag and is facing deportation.
Interview transcript:
Andy Davies: What were you doing at the time of your arrest, what was the first thing you heard and saw?
Janas Khan: Yeah it was horrible. I mean, I was talking to my friend about my future - obviously we both were talking that in the coming September we are going to submit our dissertation, we will get our degree in January, then we will properly be a Master in Business and then we can go to a professional life, we can complete the whole - obviously the challenges which will come and we'll get good job, good pay, good protocol from the company.
And that's what we were talking about, our future plannings and everything. And all of a sudden, another moment when I looked back I was surrounded by huge police officers like it was an army. So I was shocked and, though we was doing security jobs, I asked my friend like, Is everything okay in the store, I mean, is there any robbery or anything. He said, No, everything is okay, it's cool.
So I said, Let's see what's happened. So they came in and all of a sudden they said, Hands up, you are arrested. So we were shocked: excuse me, what are you saying? And they were saying that, You are arrested on suspicions of blah blah blah. So I was shocked and I didn't hear it and I said, Sorry, I'm not getting what you are saying? He said, you don't need to say anything, we are taking you to a police station and then we will explain everything to you.
So when they were taking us they took my wallet, at first they checked me, everything, and they took my wallet and my mobile from me, and then when I was taking out I said, My laptop is down there, could you please take it out? So they said OK, we'll do it. So they took that one, they checked it was my laptop and a couple of my clothes, and they said, OK, fine.
So they took me to a police station, and I mean, it was horrible, I was shocked and I was [indistinct] at what's going on, I mean, am I dreaming or is it in real? And I was talking to one of the police officers when I was on way to police station, Officer can you tell me what's going on? He said, Sorry, we can't tell you anything.
So I said, Look, it's a big misunderstanding and I think you guys should check it, that shouldn't be me. He said we can't say anything until you get there. I said, OK, fine, but I know that - I'm not sure when, but very soon you'll come to know that you are doing a misunderstanding, it's not [indistinct] what you are doing with us. So they said, OK, fine, when you get there we will see.
So I was thinking that in a couple of hours when they find out that these are not those guys they will get release us - and I asked him, Will you bring me back to the same place? And he smiled and he said, I'm sorry mate, it takes a bit longer. So I said OK, fine, let's see what's happened.
AD: How many police officers were there, did they have guns? Describe the moment of arrest.
JK: Honestly speaking I don't have words to describe that moment, I mean it was as I said scaring and shocking moment for us. yeah there was officers who'd got guns but when they came in and they said that, you don't move, and just hands up, and don't say anything. And that was, I mean, we'd been not [indistinct] on the floor and anything like that. No, we were just handcuffed and they said, Ok, you can go.
AD: And did they say why they were arresting you?
JK: Yeah they said that we are arrested on suspicion of terrorism but I didn't hear that word cos I was shocked, so I asked him again - I'm sorry, I'm not getting you, what are you saying? They said, We will let you know when you go to police station, you do not need to say anything. That's what -
AD: And did it take you completely by surprise? Or had you been concerned that you'd been under surveillance before?
JK: It was! It was - I mean, we do say that human being has five sense, and sometimes we do say that my sixth sense that, not even in our hundredth sense that this would happen to us.
We came to this country to make our future, not to ruin it, not to destroy it. Our families send us here to do our degrees so that when we go back to our country we get a good job - I've got a good family background and I've got good employment history as well, I worked for two, I worked for a couple of multinational companies in Pakistan. One of them is a [indistinct], which is a European topmost company in medicine, topmost company in Europe, whole Europe, and I was used to work there.
And I don't have those documents, those appreciation letters from my company and those letters in which I topped the whole country in sales and marketing and -
AD: When you were arrested were you separated? How many of you were arrested at the time, was there someone with you?
JK: First of all I thought that it's only me and my friend with me, right? And then, when he'd been sent a different way because I was watching them, they went to another room and me to a different room. So, when I'd been to [indistinct] they said that, are you going to ring someone, to inform somebody? So I said yeah I want to inform one of my friends. And they said, Ok, give us a name and I give them my friend name. and then after a couple of hours they came into me and they said that, Your friend been arrested as well.
So first I was blaming myself that maybe it's because of me, I give them his name and number, maybe they approached him and they arrested him as well. But later on, at midnight, about 11 o'clock there was initial interview and they said that, ah, Janas, you and your rest of mates, eleven people have been arrested on suspicions of terrorism by the Act of 2001 or whatever it is.
So then I realised that no, it's something like big game, it's not just about two of us. I mean if all of us have been involved that's something else.
AD: The police interviews began that night?
JK: Yeah, it was - they said that there is initial interview, we need to ask to confirm that we are going to your addresses and is everything ok there, is there any dangerous thing? I said, No, what are you saying, what are you talking about? It's a safe place, it's a clean place, you can go there any time you like - you're welcome. And they're saying, OK, fine, that's what we need to ask because we will be going to check your homes and addresses and flats and rooms, everything. So I said, No, you won't find anything there, it's clear, there's no one home.
AD: How many times were you intrviewed at the police station?
JK: It was, ah, more than 12, 15, 12 times I think, maybe 10 times because there were more than 15 [indistinct] that they recorded -
AD: And you answered all of their questions?
JK: Yeah all of them.
AD: What were they asking you?
JK: They were asking me, How did you come to UK, why you came to UK, what you were doing here, how you came to know these friends and, ah, what're your activities and ah what you were studying. These sort of questions. Were you doing -
AD: Did they tell you why you'd been arrested?
JK: Yeah they said, but it wasn't a particular reason, I mean there wasn't a particular allegation, they were saying that, because my lawyer was keet saying, Which particular reason have you arrested him, because terrorism is a huge area, I mean hundreds of things comes in terrorism. So which particular thing is it? And they were saying, We're sorry, we can't answer that, we can't tell that thing to you.
AD: Did they ever ask you about, whether you'd been to the Trafford Centre for instance?
JK: I heard from my lawyer but ah I never been to Trafford Centre, never ever. I wished to go there because I heard that it's one of the big shopping centres in Europe, or maybe in the UK, I wish to go there but I haven't got enough time to be-
AD: So what other questions do you remember them asking?
JK: They were asking me about my friends, again I mean there were some pictures put in front of me and they were asking me, Who's this guy, who's this guy, who's this guy, and how did you meet with him? And there were a couple of guys they said, first of all they put me, placed name-list and I said, I know this, this guy, but I don't know who are they because there were 12 or 11 I don't know.
So I knew six of them, and other, rest of them I said that if you put some pictures in front of me so I can tell you that I have seen them or not, I met with them or not. So there were a couple of guys there, they bring me those photos in front of me, and I said, Yeah, I have seen him, I met with him only couple of times and that's accidentally. Not intentionally, just accidentally - they were my friends' friends and I was with my friend so they came to my friend and that's why we met.
AD: Were they polite? Or aggressive?
JK: Yeah there are sometimes they are aggressive, sometimes they were polite - but it wasn't a matter of polite or aggressive, it was a matter of, Why am I being held in police station? That's the question I was keep asking to them, that - what you have got, tell me. They were saying, No sorry, we can't tell you.
AD: You were then taken to Woodhill - what was that like? You've only just been released from Woodhill?
JK: Yeah what happened there, before they were getting extension after 14 days, they didn't put any sheet in front of us to sign on it for extension, so we were thinking that tomorrow, insh'allah, we will get release. So by that night, about six, seven o'clock they didn't come in and say, We are going for extension, they didn't say anything.
At about eight o'clock or nine o'clock they came in and they opened my cell and they said, Come out and we need to talk to you. I came out, I thought that it may be interview, because when they got extension for five days, after seven days they got extension for now two days more, and then from nine days it was for five days further. In those five days I had been interviewed only twice; rest of days I was in cell.
AD: You then went to Woodhill - what was that like?
JK: It was horrible! First of all we'd heard that we are going to the immigration centre, the deportation centre, because the Home Office security ordered that, You are going to be deported. And that night one of our fellows said that, You are going to the immigration centre, you have been released from police custody, you have been released from all allegations, but you are going to be deported. On which basis? That you are - threat to national security. So again, I mean, I was talking to my lawyer that it's still same case, I mean, I'm not clear yet, and they said that -
AD: But Janas just tell me about Woodhill?
JK: Woodhill was basically a high security prison. When we went there there was a couple of night, the first night we went there and then they put us straight away into a Cat A wing (AD: Category A?) Yeah Category A wing where there is more restrictions, and you're thoroughly treated as a prisoner, and in Cat A you will find prisoners, I mean, dangerous prisoners -
AD: What sort of restrictions?
JK: Restrictions was that most of time you have been banged up in prison, in your cell, there was association sometimes and I suppose if you are going to see your lawyer you're going to be strip-searched and three or four times you are going to be searched. And it was frustrating, I mean there were times when you were gtting frustrating and angry, why it's happening to us, we've been not convicted, we've been not charged, and what we are doing in prison? What we are treated as a convicted prisoner?
AD: How many of those arrested were with you at Woodhill?
JK: We altogether were three, and two being still in prison and I have been released.
AD: And were you allowed to associate with the other two?
JK: Yeah, I mean there was a time, there was association time, you could associate with your friends and other prisoners, with officers.
AD: Your treatment there was generally ok?
JK: [Gestures] How can I say that it was ok? I mean, it was prison. It was not normal. I mean, I never came to this country, I never been in my whole life in 26 years in my country to be in police station. I never been in a police station. So I mean I was wondering about the treatment - why they put us into a prison, why they put us into a police station? Why they put these allegations against me? Why?
Back in our country there is image where the UK is the most western country where they do take care about human rights, they do take care about people, they do welcome foreigners, they do welcome students to do study here, to get degrees here to have a bright future - but if it's happening to people, what the people will be thinking of in the coming future?
AD: Janas at the time we did an interview with your father on the phone, he was very distressed by this. You've presumably spoken to your family during this whole affair - what impact has this had on you personally?
JK: I don't have the words. I can't explain it. My family been in struggle throughout, from the first day, when they heard that their loving son is in prison, is in custody, and not in a normal thing but in a terrorism. My mother she is a heart patient, she been to hospital couple of times just because of this news, she heard that he's in prison, he's being treated like a prisoner. Because it was uncertainty - till the day I was released it was uncertainty, we didn't know what was going on still.
Our lives being in problem because we were not getting any information from them - why you have arrested these guys? And our businesses have been shut down, my brother's from the first day they been in contact with my lawyers, they been in contact with the Pakistan authorities, they been in contact with Pakistan media, and British media.
AD: It's been a difficult time for you?
JK: It was, it was, it's been a difficult time for me, for my family, it was obviously I mean, as I said I can't describe it, I can't. I wish that no one see such horrible experience in his life, in their life.
AD: What's your relationship with the other detainees?
JK: There were 12 of detainees, two of them been released after 14 days, they have been released because they got UK passport and, but rest of them I knew six of them, they were my friends: we used to live in two different houses and we used to live together almost every time we had meal, food, going for outing, for meals in restaurant for a trip.
AD: All originally from Pakistan?
JK: Ya all originally from Pakistan. From different cities.
AD: Friends of yours from Pakistan or did you meet them here?
JK: No I make friends here, not in Pakistan.
AD: Any sense that they had extremist sympathies?
JK: No way.
AD: None whatsoever?
JK: None whatsoever.
AD: But you've been associating with people who this government wants to deport on the grounds of national security.
JK: That's what I mean, we still keep asking this question, that, what do you have got? We want that thing. I mean if you think that I'm terrorist -
AD: Evidence?
JK: Yeah. If I'm threat to national security bring it to me. I'll see it - if I think that it's wrong I'll fight for it, if not I'll go. But there was nothing, there was nothing in [the] case, they just keep saying that. I mean, I can't lie to myself, right? At least I can't lie to myself: I know myself that I am innocent. I have nothing to do with anything wrong in this country. From last three and a half years if you find my offences, I mean my criminl record, you won't find a single point against me, a single thing against me.
AD: Have you ever downloaded extremist literature?
JK: No way. My laptop is still in their custody, they can check it -
AD: Have you ever met someone linked to al-Qaeda?
JK: No, never.
AD: Do you have any friends, acquaintainces who harboured sympathies for al-Qaeda?
JK: No way, never.
AD: Is al-Qaeda in your view anything other than a terrorist organisation?
JK: That's it.
AD: That's it? You view al-Qaeda as a terrorist organisation?
JK: That's what I mean, for these things we have got our politicians, our leaders, they are dealing with them. Whatever the best way they are dealing with them. I mean, we don't like whatever happening in Pakistan, we condemn those things - I mean, innocent pople being killed.
We used to hear it when we were here, we used to watch on telly and newschannels that this been happening in Pakistan, obviously it's our Motherland, who would want their Motherland to be destroyed? We want to make our Pakistan future, the whole Pakistan future depend on the young youth, on us, the young generation, this is we who will build up Pakistan image in the world, not to let down.
AD: This is a difficult question for someone from your part of Pakistan, but do you support what the British soldiers are doing in Afghanistan?
JK: I said, ah, I have nothing to do with politics. That's, that's politics thing I'm [indistinct]. I'm a common, um, human being.
AD: But you must have a view on that?
JK: Yeah I do have a view on that but the view is that whatever is happening in Pakistan, that's wrong. People are killing in Pakistan, that's wrong. [AD: In Afghanistan?] In Afghanistan as well, I mean obviously, that's our neighbour country. Whatever happening in there, it's wrong. It's totally wrong. We do condemn that.
AD: And the British troops in Afghanistan?
JK: They're doing their best.
AD: Should they be there?
JK: [Gestures] I mean, Afghanistan people can give that answer very well. But they're doing what they've been told.
AD: The Home Office quot that they've given now, they've withdrawn the national security concerns; they've said, the quote I read earlier, they were withdrawing the intention to deport on NSG but couldn't hold you indefinitely - that statement makes it sound as if they didn't want to release you. Why are they tagging you, why these robust measures to secure you?
JK: That's my next issue. I mean, on one side they're saying that you've been released, and on the other as you say I've been tagged. Still I have been under observation and under surveillance maybe. [AD: Do you think you're under surveillance at the moment?] Who knows?
AD: Have they told you why they've tagged you?
JK: They've, ah, no, they didn't say anything, I mean I just speak to my lawyer and they say that it's only immigration matter, you've been released from all those allegations, all those accusations, it's only a matter of immigration. It's only for your passport matter, I mean if you get extension, if you get a visa to stay here, then we will release, I mean I'm not sure about that, what's going on.
AD: You do realise that many people seeing you tagged, under curfew, will struggle to accept your protestations of complete innocence?
JK: It's a good question. It depends on them obviously. In their hearts they know that these guys they are innocent, they know the fact. But still if they tag me, obviously, even I will be thinking against someone that if he has been tagged, that he is still suspected.
AD: Your friends who are still detained, whom the government wants to detain on grounds of national security, did you at any stage think that they had extremist sympathies?
JK: No.
AD: Hand on heart you can say that?
JK: Yup, sure.
AD: Extremism was never discussed?
JK: Never. Never ever.
AD: Politics? Surely - you're students?
JK: Yah - politics I mean, in a sense that whatever is going on in the world, like economy, [indistinct], these kind of things, just regarding to businesses, yup we were discussing them.
AD: But you must have been discussing issues relating to Pakistan, Afghanistan & Iraq?
JK: Not too much. We were mostky, I mean it's a matter of life, [smiles] we were mostly discussing about girls and about class-fellows and about our studies and, ah, that's what...
AD: If they deport you, are you worried about going back to Pakistan in the sense that yu may be called in by the Pakistani authorities for questioning?
JK: As a matter of fact, as I have said, since from the first day the Pakistani government they believed that we were innocent, and they come to know that we are innocent because they will keep asking for evidence, and they have not been provided those evidence. And from the first day they know, our government know, our family know, whole Pakistani people know, the British people, I mean I've seen English in prison, their families know that [when] they've been released they will walk away, they are doing their studies.
So most of people, not most, hundred per cent people know that these are innocent. So I mean it's my mother country, it's my Motherland, I don't think so I'll get any problem there because [indistinct] having been a detainee. But still, why should I be deported? That's the question.
AD: Presumably because you were associating with people they still want to deport on national security grounds?
JK: Well why me? And, as I said, if they have got something why they not showing that? If they think that, after four months that, yah, [indistinct] improper that he be kept in prison, and he should be released, and yah they have got some immigration matters, this needs to be solved - why for those three and a half months or four months in prison?
AD: Did you get a chance to see any coverage, or hear your father's interview?
JK: No, because it was on local Pakistan channels. One of our friend's fathers, he give a couple of interviews to BBC, but we didn't see that because by the time we were in a cell, not in association, and you couldn't see a multimedia screen.
AD: How easy was it getting a visa? You know there's been controversy about that, was that easy?
JK: No it's not that much straightforward, you need to submit some of documents, you need to show proof of IDs and different things. It is difficult, it's not that much easy, but obviously those people who are granted visas, right, they are the most appropriate... ambassadors are visa-granted people. They sit there because they know their job.
And I have been to UK in a proper way, in a genuine way. I've been to Islamabad for interview, I've been there and given interview and they accepted my interview and said that your visa has been granted. So it was a proper way.
