MI5 transcript of bomber's conversation

This is a transcript of conversations bugged by MI5 between the ringleader of the fertiliser plot, Omar Khyam and London suicide bomber Mohammed Siddique Khan.

23 March 2004

Minor alterations have been made to the transcript: for legal reasons some names have been removed and replaced with 'unidentified male'; the text has been edited to make it clearer grammatically.

Nightime recording: of occupants in Flat 4, 56 Hencroft St, Slough

Mohammed Siddique Khan: In America you get all these guys walking around with big gold medallions and a 'G' for gangster. We should all go round there with a big rope and a flipping passport, walking about saying look I've got a real passport. I can't find my passport. Do you think they will let me in?

Omar Khyam: You can get one in a day.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Have you got cheap tickets. These two ... it's costing like £1100,

Omar Khyam: Yeah

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Two of them, yeah.

Omar Khyam: We got £580 for two people, that's including one night in Dubai as well as the hotel.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: That's the problem with this travel agent. I mean he's official and everything but he's...

Unidentified male 1: He's a crazy man.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: That's the problem with him. He's very straight forward.

Omar Khyam: You get what you need out of him. The others say come back next week mate - come back in three days come back tomorrow. They don't want to know they really messed us about that's why I go back to this guy.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: There's not point me pratting about. I'll be back this week - specific day - anything if you want - it's not an issue is it. I'm sure I can - couple of months away - really just get it sorted - keep me in the long stay? As well.

Omar Khyam: Then at least we know what the date is.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Is the other brother coming down?

All: Yeah

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Bruv does your family think you are going there to study?

Unidentified male 2: What?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: For three years.

Unidentified male 2: I said it's a three year course but I'm going to stay there innit for my holidays.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: What happens when the phone calls stop?

Unidentified male 2: What I'm going to do is I'm going to write a letter to ... and I'm going to tell the brother what the situation is and they know exactly how to do that, send a letter.

Omar Khyam: You could be studying the war as well.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: You will be studying until ...

[unclear conversation - over talking about what they will say they are doing when they travel - whole conversation centred around raising money, borrowing from bank, selling cars, credit card scams.]

Mohammed Siddique Khan: They're asking for wage slips and bank statements. I blagged the amount didn't I. Over the phone I said my father's had a stroke, kill my father off again... [laughter], My father a had stroke and I can't think about it, so I'll leave it for a little while and get back to you, when things have settled down again.

They were very apologetic and sympathetic (they obviously appreciated that I would speak to them later).

Unidentified male 3: To be fair to you he did give you some advice, he says if you like, went straight into like a bank and applied for an unsecured loan.

He said there's no reason why, because he says their lending criteria is stricter than some banks.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: I'm gonna tap HSBC. I've got myself onto their register and I'm gonna tap one of my leads and take it from there. It's not a problem. Whatever comes, comes apart from that, I'll just go with a balaclava and a shotgun [laughter]. I'll just need a driver, any offers?

Unidentified male 3: Don't use the Audi, whatever you do [laughter].

Mohammed Siddique Khan: What's next on the agenda?

Unidentified male 3: Just get a car - the repro man would come and take it. They pay value and we can turn that into cash.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: What's the profit estimates?

Unidentified male 3: Go straight for something like a Porsche 967... about 25-27 grand.

Unidentified male: Just get yourself a current bank account, you got one haven't you. Which bank do you bank with?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: HSBC, Barclays and Halifax.

Unidentified male: Go to HSBC and say I've got currency now can I have a credit card... they will come up with one, yeah.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Well what I'm going to do is, I'm going to hit a bank, this week, and then ... I'm not really going to walk into a shop with a shotgun [laughter] ... You would give me a bad name.

I'm probably going to try them. I've probably got a bit of time, couple of months. But I mean the brother said if you want some names and details I can do anything, it's a worthwhile thing.

Unidentified male 3: Right OK, the other things, credit cards and stuff, retrieve the stuff, the driving license and everything is going towards the loan, the loan will be a transfer, obviously.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: On paper I live at an address where I've been renting so all my mail goes to that address. It gets redirected to where I'm currently living. Can they get in contact? By the time, they do I should not be round and I've not defaulted on anything ... I'm going to leave like two to three month's payments so by the time they start chasing up eventually they'll send someone around to that address, knock the door, some bald, fat, overweight...

Unidentified male: They've got no powers you know. Bailiffs got no power...

Mohammed Siddique Khan: I keep getting knocked back for credit cards.

Unidentified male: You regularly apply for them, yeah. When was the last time you applied for one?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Well the recent one, Marbles, about six months ago but I wasn't on the electoral register then.

Unidentified male: It's them companies you want [credit searches]. They say, right, he's got a credit card and they can tell exactly how much money you've got.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Can I lie to them about my wages and things like that?

[After much conversation about various credit card and getting loans from contacts in banks]

Unidentified male 2: You want to chill here tonight?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: No we're going to head back to, there are three of us from Leeds.

Unidentified male 2: Leeds, I thought the accent was Leeds ... where do you work, in a school?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Yeah I counsel children ... it becomes a very superficial thing, something from within, even from ourselves. I've placed a lot of emphasis on scholars that we have today. They're not doing their jobs. If they were we would not be in this situation. We sit on our backsides moaning and munching for the rest of our lives.

Unidentified male 2: If more of them had stuck by their guns, they are not going to arrest every single one of them are they? And if they did there would be uproar.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: What kind of difference would that make, though. There are so many strong youths out there who could rise up and speak to the scholars.

Then we wouldn't be like this. There would be a real buzz in the air, much more acceptable. We would not be running and ducking and diving from our families from our communities about this and the issues we face.

Unidentified male 2: The thing about this is, Khan, our worst enemy to a certain degree. It is not the enemy it's our own people.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Do the job for them don't they?

Unidentified male 2: You working?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: No. I got a whiplash injury so I'm injured. I was two weeks off work and then two weeks easter holidays [laughter].

Unidentified male 2: You had an accident?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Someone drove into the back of me.

Unidentified male 2: Compensation?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: I haven't got time for that.

Unidentified male 3: How long does it take you to get to Leeds, two hours - three hours?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: About three and a half ... I'd rather hit the road now.

[Conversation followed about how to obtain fraudulent NI numbers, free internet and credit for mobile phones, how to obtain mobile phones fraudulently. Mohammed Siddique Khan, and two unidentified males then discuss bribing of officials in an airport to Pakistan to get people out of the country. Further discuss camping equipment, ask Mohammed Siddique Khan to stay.]

Mohammed Siddique Khan: I've got to return that car bro or they will be charging me extra.

21 February 2004

Covert recording

Omar Khyam: Come with us for a bit. Just follow us, inshallah. Jump in bro.

[Mohammed Siddique Khan gets in car]

Omar Khyam: Are these lot ready bruv? [ready to go to Afghanistan][referring to Shazad Tanweer and one other unidentified male]

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Yeah

Omar Khyam: What I'll do is, I will talk to you tonight, inshallah. How quickly can these guys go?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: It's down to you. We have a lot of questions to ask. I know that this is like really out of order. I was hoping for a slight extension. You know my wife is having a kid, yeah? I was hoping so that I can get to the hospital. But these guys are good to go as soon as you say.

Omar Khyam: Yeah.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Listen this can't come quick enough for them.

Omar Khyam: We'll get in the car and I'll talk to you. It's about time we get them together. Now do they want to go for good?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Yeah, they understand. I spent a lot of time with them [get out of car] we are right behind you.

[Enter the house]

Omar Khyam: There was a time you could land and Afghanistan was like a terrorist training camp. You can come out and come back but obviously we know that time is finished. That's it 'cause every time you come back, you are going to make yourself hotter because you're a youth travelling into Pakistan and out of Pakistan and they watch that.

So when you come back, and when you link up with some brothers, here they become hot as well. And when you meet brothers involved in financing it makes them hot. So overall, it's worse, right now.

The Big Emir of the brothers is saying they can come, but it is a one way ticket. That's it if you agree with that bruv, it's not a problem bruv. If it's a one way ticket. You understand that. You agree with that, inshallah.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Inshallah

Omar Khyam: Second thing, because you are going to leave now you may as well rip the country apart, economically as well. All the brothers are running scams and I advise you to do the same. Run them, you will probably walk away with 20 grand and that's really easy money bruv.

I can set it all up for you. And I will get a brother to run it. All the brothers leaving are doing it because the government - we might as well take their wealth and, as you know, I believe that it's the most purest of wealth even purer than your 9 to 5 jobs. They are taking it from us and we are just taking it back. Any questions you want to ask - fire away.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: It's about my extension

Omar Khyam: No problem

Mohammed Siddique Khan: I was looking maybe mid June 'cause the child is due on 25 May would it be like two months after that so that she's physically OK and the child is alright.

Omar Khyam: No problem

Shazad Tanweer: Any extra risks getting into Pakistan?

Omar Khyam: We had five Bengalis last year. Guess how we got them in. From Bangladesh all the way across India into Pakistan... we bribed the guy. You know when you go to the check-in, it would all be set up.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Going through the airport - normal tickets.

Omar Khyam: Yeah, just walk straight through bruv normal, just act as if you are a Pakistani. And if they say something to you in Urdu just say 'I don't speak Urdu'.

Shazad Tanweer: I live in Faisalbad

Omar Khyam: That's not a problem

Omar Khyam: All right bruv. Get your parents to pick you up. Or your family ... And that way you will breeze through the airport seriously. Even if they are following you - it doesn't really count. Chill out, proper chill out ... until we contact you and then we'll pick you up.

Shazad Tanweer: What do we need to buy?

Omar Khyam: I think you need to buy the sleeping bag. If you've got a bit of time I can take you ... Do you have to go back tonight?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: We can make arrangements to come back again.

Omar Khyam: Because all the kit we have to send is ready now. And tomorrow morning I can take you two - it's about an hour's drive from here - where it is all being stored, and I can show you it.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: I don't want to keep coming down.

Omar Khyam: OK. You need a rucksack. A 45 litre one, you need a sleeping bag, one that has strips on the side and becomes really compact. Some Merrells - or boots.

Shazad Tanweer: What about thermal, waterproof?

Omar Khyam: Nah. All you need is a jacket which is waterproof and breathable. Forget the Goretex.

Shazad Tanweer: How much money is needed?

Omar Khyam: Well, if you are going to put this stuff through, you will leave with about £20k.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Let's just say going through.

Omar Khyam: No more than about two grand.

Shazad Tanweer: [Asks about presenting passports on arrival]

Omar Khyam: Take your own passports through the airport. Whoever is you Emir he will take all the wealth. If you or your brother need a doctor he will arrange for you to see a doctor. He will pay for it. If you need to make a phone call home he will arrange for the telephone call. Anything you think needs to be done he will do it. But Islam works through the Emir ... everything goes through him.

Don't tell your real name to no one, even to your emir. Just say you are from Manchester.

Some of you will be enrolling in the colleges, doing electronic courses, computer courses, whatever you want to do. You are British guys who have come to study in Pakistan because it's a lot cheaper.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: How long does it take to get to the training camp [to be selected in Pakistan] ... the actual camp.

Omar Khyam: You'll be going to the tribal areas, stay with families, you'll be with Arab brothers, Chechen brothers.

The only thing I will advise you, yeah, is total obedience to whoever your Emir is ... whether he is Sunni, Arab, Chechen, Saudi, British - total obedience. I'll tell you up there you can get your head cut off.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: How soon are we looking?

Omar Khyam: My advice ... in the next month they are going to start raiding big time.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: With regards to the babe, I'm debating whether or not to say goodbye and so forth.

Omar Khyam: You know what my advice is, right ... when the time comes for me to leave, at the end of the day, by telling them, of course - you love them bruv, this much, that we stay away from them, 'cause I know it's better for me and it's better for them and that's my advice.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: There's another brother we've got whose just coming in. But from all the tests we've thrown at him, our general consensus opinion is that he is not ready yet.

Omar Khyam: Maybe in the summer. We can set it up again.

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Not sure I want to keep in contact with anyone in the UK.

Shazad Tanweer and the Bengali don't want to keep in direct contact with him. He's about 18.

Omar Khyam: How about if we leave him a contact here?

Mohammed Siddique Khan: Will that be all right?

Omar Khyam: I think instead of having contact with you here... that's more dangerous... I'll leave a contact brother in Crawley.

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