PMQs: who saved the world?
Updated on 10 December 2008
David Cameron challenges the prime minister on bank lending, and Gordon Brown makes a slip of the tongue.
Conservative leader David Cameron launched his question to the prime minister today by saying "I am going to ask the prime minister again about the need to get banks lending to businesses.
"Does the prime minister accept...his recapitalisation has failed and when is he going to change it?"
In response, Gordon Brown made a slip of the tongue. "We have not only saved the world," he said. "Err, saved the banks" he continued, but the short stumble was enough for the opposition benches to erupt.
The beleaguered speaker of the house, Michael Martin, struggled for some seconds to control the outburst of jeering before the prime minister was able to continue saying "we have not only worked with other countries to save the world's banking system, but not one depositor actually lost any money in Britain."
Brown went on to say that interest rates have come down "to get the banks into a position where they can resume lending".
"The opposition may not like the fact that we led the world in saving the banking system," he said. "But we did."
"He's so busy talking about saving the world he's forgotten about the businesses of the country he's meant to be governing."David Cameron, Conservative leader
Cameron then returned to the dispatch box saying "well it's now on the record," much to the delight of his party. "He's so busy talking about saving the world he's forgotten about the businesses of the country he's meant to be governing."
"The prime minister keeps saying that everyone in the world has copied [the recapitalisation of the banks], but no one has copied the details," he said. Talking about the rates at which the government is lending the money to banks, Cameron added "other countries aren't copying that even if he thinks he's saving the world."
Brown responded by saying that Cameron "forgets" a number of other measures the government has introduced "which would not be possible if we took the advice from the Conservative party".
"We are taking the measures that are necessary. Unfortunately to do that you have to be able to put a fiscal injection into the economy," he said.
"Unfortunately the Conservative party opposes the extra investment that is needed. Unfortunately the Conservative party are still clinging to the failed policies for the 1980s."
"The fiscal stimulus has got nothing to do with saving the businesses that are going bust and need the lending from banks," Cameron retorted.
"I know he's been round the world boasting about his recapitalisation scheme, so he's reluctant to change it, but for the good of the economy and our businesses it has got to change."
"Unfortunately the difference between our two parties is he would do absolutely nothing and let the recession run its course."Gordon Brown, prime minister
The debated then switched to wrangling about what policies the Council of Mortgage Lenders supports before Brown reiterates a familiar criticism. "I'm sorry to have to teach him about what an economy is about," he said.
"Unfortunately the difference between our two parties is he would do absolutely nothing and let the recession run its course. We are prepared to take the action necessary, but accept it costs money."
"The difference between this side and him," responded Cameron "is while he thinks that he's saving the world we are talking about businesses in the real world and the British economy."
He then quoted the governor of the Bank of England on the importance of bank lending, saying "If he wasn't wasting so much time and everyone's money on his pointless VAT cut, he could have spent more time on this."
Brown then quoted the chairman of the public accounts committee on the VAT cut who said it will not help the poorest. "If ever that was uncaring conservativism," he said. "Let him ask the chairman of the public accounts committee to apologise."
"Why can't the prime minister answer the question about [adopting] our national loan guarantee scheme?" Cameron replied. "On the day he's copying our welfare reforms, will he swallow his pride and admit that he needs to copy our proposal for a national loan guarantee scheme?"
"Again I've got to teach him something," Brown said. "We've already got a loan business guarantee scheme.
"If the Conservatives stand for the policies of the 1980s and 1990s, where they did nothing as the unemployed and small businesses went to the wall, and if they do not allow the extra expenditure, then they are on the wrong side of history."
"The prime minister is on the wrong side of mathematics," declared Cameron. "The loan guarantee scheme covers 0.2 per cent of business lending."
"Lets take a moment to look at his record," he added. "He's brought this country to the brink of bankruptcy and the deepest recession of the G7, and isn't the person responsible him?"
Brown used his last answer in the battle to refer to Cameron's scathing attack on the government's economic policies yesterday. "I think the Conservative party enters 2009 with exactly the same policies as the 1980s - they will say anything to disguise the fact that they will do nothing."
Brown v Clegg
After an intermediary question, it was Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg's turn to challenge the prime minister.
He referred to a visit from a single mother in his constituency who had a "bundle of letters from the government demanding her tax credits back."
"She was terrified," he said. "Does the prime minister think this is the kind of help that people need in a recession?"
Brown offered to look at the individual case raised, but said "I think he should recognised that tax credits have taken more children out of poverty than any other single measure."
"The prime minister is deluding himself," Clegg shot back. "I know he thinks he's Atlas carrying the world on his shoulders, but the fact is that I have figures showing that he is now dragging 35 low-income families a day to court."
He called the tax credit system "confused, bureaucratic and cruel" and asking for a system of fixed payments.
The prime minister responded by saying that fixed payments could not be adjusted when a household's income falls. "The whole point of having a flexible system is to enable us to respond to the changes in people's circumstances," he said.
