Question 1 | Question 2 | Question 3 | Question 4 | Question 5 | Question 6 | Question 7 | Question 8 | Question 9 | Question 10

Question 6

Hello Bettany, enjoyed the programme enormously. What did you mean exactly when you said near the end that despite venerating Greek Democracy the west has been trying to avoid it?

(From John, Liverpool)

Bettany Hughes: Thanks John, glad you liked it. When I talked of the West 'avoiding democracy' I was really trying to point up an interesting paradox. There is no doubt that we have come to think of fifth century BC Athens as representing some kind of Golden Age. If you look at the vocabulary used to describe the place at the time, 'genius' is scattered liberally though the secondary source literature, the Athenian influence on Greek art has been nominated 'the Greek Miracle', and Athenian politics has been described as a 'bedrock' for Western civilisation.

In real terms, however, although nations and empires (both Eastern and Western) have had the opportunity to use fifth-century Athens as a political role model, they have in fact rejected it. There are very few democracy 'revivalist' movements in the history of mankind. Ironic (sad?) that the Parthenon, a symbol of progressive political thought, has spent much of its 2,500 year history in a land mass run by oligarchs/aristocrats. Far from being our political ancestor, Athenian-style democracy was a (glorious) evolutionary dead end.

For a number of the founding fathers of America the notion of a democracy was a dangerous and unpalatable one. In one document in the US you see the word democracy scratched out and 'republic' inserted in its place. For your amusement I have just copied over a few quotes about democracy that have been sent to me as I worked on this series. A warning, I haven't cross-referenced these with the original sources so double-check before you quote them yourself or pass them on!

'The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.'
Winston Churchill (1874–1965), UK prime minister, 1940–1945 and 1951–1955

'Democracies have been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death.'
James Madison (1751–1836), fourth president of the United States of America, 1809–1817

'The spirit of democracy cannot be established in the midst of terrorism, whether governmental or popular.'
'The spirit of democracy cannot be superimposed from the outside. It must come from within.'
Mahatma Gandhi (1869–1948), political and spiritual leader of Indian independence movement

'Democratic institutions form a system of quarantine for tyrannical desires.'
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844–1900), German philosopher

'The whole dream of democracy is to raise the proletarian to the level of stupidity attained by the bourgeois.'
Gustave Flaubert (1821–1880), French writer and novelist

'Democracy means government by discussion, but it is only effective if you can stop people talking.'
Clement Atlee (1883–1967), UK prime minister, 1945–1951

'Democracy is a process by which the people are free to choose the man who will get the blame.'
Laurence J Peter (1919–1988), educator and writer

'Democracy…while it lasts is more bloody than either [aristocracy or monarchy]. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.'
John Adams (1735–1826), second president of the United States of America, 1797–1801

Thanks for your interest in the series and for contributing to this post-show discussion. Good stuff.

< Previous question | Next question > | See all questions