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Interview with the actors
The roles of Henry and John Fielding in 'City of Vice' are played by Ian McDiarmid and Iain Glen. Here they talk about the making of the series.
The roles of Henry and John Fielding in 'City of Vice' are played by Ian McDiarmid and Iain Glen. Here they talk about the making of the series.
Was it a prerequisite of this drama that you had to be a Scot called Ian to star in City of Vice?
IG: Yes, absolutely. I insisted.
IM: I did too. I wanted one who spelt it slightly differently from me – he's I-a-i-n. I thought it worked very well.
People who see the frills and bonnets should be made aware: it's not your average genteel costume drama, is it?
IM: No, genteel isn't the first word that springs to mind.
IG: Although it's got lots of lavish costumes.
Was that one of the things that made the project attractive, the fact that you're seeing a different, seedier side of eighteenth century Britain?
IG: Definitely. The writing gives you a real insight into what London was like, and it's a world that we don't really know about. When we do dramas on TV we go sort of fluffy and Jane Austen-y, and it's nice, easy viewing. This is the murkier, sordid truth of how most people actually lived at that time. London was a terribly, terribly dangerous place then. And so we have the beginnings of the Bow Street Runners trying to come up against this city of incredible vice. And another attractive thing about this is that it works as a police drama series that exists in a very, very different world from the norm.
IM: One other thing that I liked about the script was that, as well as being dark and brooding and harrowing, it's also quite funny.
IG: Yes, absolutely. I insisted.
IM: I did too. I wanted one who spelt it slightly differently from me – he's I-a-i-n. I thought it worked very well.
People who see the frills and bonnets should be made aware: it's not your average genteel costume drama, is it?
IM: No, genteel isn't the first word that springs to mind.
IG: Although it's got lots of lavish costumes.
Was that one of the things that made the project attractive, the fact that you're seeing a different, seedier side of eighteenth century Britain?
IG: Definitely. The writing gives you a real insight into what London was like, and it's a world that we don't really know about. When we do dramas on TV we go sort of fluffy and Jane Austen-y, and it's nice, easy viewing. This is the murkier, sordid truth of how most people actually lived at that time. London was a terribly, terribly dangerous place then. And so we have the beginnings of the Bow Street Runners trying to come up against this city of incredible vice. And another attractive thing about this is that it works as a police drama series that exists in a very, very different world from the norm.
IM: One other thing that I liked about the script was that, as well as being dark and brooding and harrowing, it's also quite funny.
The slums of London are brilliantly depicted alongside great wealth. Where did you film?
IG: Actually, we filmed in this sort of mansion in the countryside. And we created all of the scenes within the house or the grounds and the outhouses. We built the streets of London just beside it. But it's amazing what they can do just by rearranging certain things to create a completely different look. Sometimes you'd come back to the same space two days later and it would be a completely different room. It was absolutely brilliant; I really don't know how they did it. There was a degree of CGI as well. I think it's amazing. We've got five hours of television, and countless scenes, and if we took you there, you wouldn't believe where we'd filmed it.
With a project like this, a lot of historical research goes into it, doesn't it?
IG: Yes. Among other things, Henry Fielding kept a diary, and was very keen to record all the work they did and I think the writers took some stuff from those. But they used a whole range of sources.
IM: There are a number of actual historical characters featured in the series, including some of the madams and thieves. But then, of course, there are also the writers' imaginations, who may have taken those characters a bit further, taken them to areas where they hadn't gone.
Obviously you had your own research to do as well. Did you decide that, in the name of research, you should plunge yourselves into a world of seedy sex and cheap gin?
IM [laughs]: Of course. I didn't actually have to change anything about my life to do that.
Do you actually do research before shooting, or is it all in the script?
IM: We had a wonderful historical advisor who would answer any questions we wanted, and was a mine of information. She'd written a book on the period. You do all of that work, because you want to make sure that the facts that are necessary to get right you do get right. But then you just want to get into it, and put your faith in the script.
IG: When you read the script for this, so much of the research had been done; it was so carefully written that a lot of that work was done for you.
IM: And also, the characters are often finding themselves in completely new situations – my goodness they are – and so it's quite good to let that happen.
IG: Yeah, you can let yourself get too bogged down in all of it. Of course, there are some specific things you need to work on. Obviously, playing John, one of the major things was dealing with the blindness. So I spent time prior to it just keeping my eyes closed and knowing how you move and how it affects the way you are within a space. That's something you do need to sort out before you start filming.
Do you try and blot out your sight when you're actually playing him?
IG: You do, yes. There were actually two different types of lenses I used during filming, one of which was such that I literally was blind. So when you're trying to walk through the set or hit marks where you need to stand, you need to be guided by someone.
IM: And it was interesting how often people forget when you can't see. Iain would have to remind people a lot of the time.
Did that experience give you a greater sense of John Fielding's achievements?
IG: Yeah, absolutely. What he achieved was extraordinary.
As was his brother Henry, for different reasons. He was a real Renaissance Man, wasn't he?
IM: Very much so. Everyone knows him from his writing. I had no idea that he'd been a magistrate, and such an influential one, before this. I think it's amazing that we don't all know so much more about him. What he did was so important that you'd think everything he did would be recorded and we'd all learn about him at school.
IG: If you asked Justin, the director, I think he'd tell you one of the reasons he wanted to do this was because we really should know more about the contribution these two men made.
IM: All the more so because Henry Fielding was really very ill. He had terrible, terrible gout, he could hardly walk. And he had asthma and all sorts of things. He was always working against pain. And he hardly ever slept.
The two of them really created the basis of modern police procedure, didn't they?
IG: That's right. Nobody had ever done anything like it before, it was completely uncharted territory, and they kind of made up procedure as they went along.
IM: And they invented the idea that policing might be some sort of social service, rather than just somebody who may or may not do something and was probably corrupt anyway.
Having said how virtuous they were, they weren't averse to using torture. It reveals a darker side to them, doesn't it?
IG: It does, it does. Don't take this the wrong way, but it was a much, much more brutal society they were operating in. If you think that mothers would deliberately blind their own babies so that they could beg and make money, then you get a better idea of what society was like.
Were you aware that the issue of torture had so much contemporary resonance?
IM: Definitely. That was one of the exciting things about the series; there were resonances with contemporary issues throughout the series. Without being hit over the head, even though it's in a period context, you get the feeling that you can relate to what's going on.
Henry died a few years after the Bow Street Runners were founded, but John went on with the work for a long time, didn't he?
IG: Oh yes, for another 30 years. He was much admired, and he was regarded as being a fair judge. He was knighted, in the end.
IM: And he started an employment register as well.
IG: That's right. The two of them had such extraordinary lives. It's the stuff that drama should be about, and it tells the stories that people would otherwise be unaware of. What the Fielding brothers did has to be worth making a drama about.
Go to episode guide »
IG: Actually, we filmed in this sort of mansion in the countryside. And we created all of the scenes within the house or the grounds and the outhouses. We built the streets of London just beside it. But it's amazing what they can do just by rearranging certain things to create a completely different look. Sometimes you'd come back to the same space two days later and it would be a completely different room. It was absolutely brilliant; I really don't know how they did it. There was a degree of CGI as well. I think it's amazing. We've got five hours of television, and countless scenes, and if we took you there, you wouldn't believe where we'd filmed it.
With a project like this, a lot of historical research goes into it, doesn't it?
IG: Yes. Among other things, Henry Fielding kept a diary, and was very keen to record all the work they did and I think the writers took some stuff from those. But they used a whole range of sources.
IM: There are a number of actual historical characters featured in the series, including some of the madams and thieves. But then, of course, there are also the writers' imaginations, who may have taken those characters a bit further, taken them to areas where they hadn't gone.
Obviously you had your own research to do as well. Did you decide that, in the name of research, you should plunge yourselves into a world of seedy sex and cheap gin?
IM [laughs]: Of course. I didn't actually have to change anything about my life to do that.
Do you actually do research before shooting, or is it all in the script?
IM: We had a wonderful historical advisor who would answer any questions we wanted, and was a mine of information. She'd written a book on the period. You do all of that work, because you want to make sure that the facts that are necessary to get right you do get right. But then you just want to get into it, and put your faith in the script.
IG: When you read the script for this, so much of the research had been done; it was so carefully written that a lot of that work was done for you.
IM: And also, the characters are often finding themselves in completely new situations – my goodness they are – and so it's quite good to let that happen.
IG: Yeah, you can let yourself get too bogged down in all of it. Of course, there are some specific things you need to work on. Obviously, playing John, one of the major things was dealing with the blindness. So I spent time prior to it just keeping my eyes closed and knowing how you move and how it affects the way you are within a space. That's something you do need to sort out before you start filming.
Do you try and blot out your sight when you're actually playing him?
IG: You do, yes. There were actually two different types of lenses I used during filming, one of which was such that I literally was blind. So when you're trying to walk through the set or hit marks where you need to stand, you need to be guided by someone.
IM: And it was interesting how often people forget when you can't see. Iain would have to remind people a lot of the time.
Did that experience give you a greater sense of John Fielding's achievements?
IG: Yeah, absolutely. What he achieved was extraordinary.
As was his brother Henry, for different reasons. He was a real Renaissance Man, wasn't he?
IM: Very much so. Everyone knows him from his writing. I had no idea that he'd been a magistrate, and such an influential one, before this. I think it's amazing that we don't all know so much more about him. What he did was so important that you'd think everything he did would be recorded and we'd all learn about him at school.
IG: If you asked Justin, the director, I think he'd tell you one of the reasons he wanted to do this was because we really should know more about the contribution these two men made.
IM: All the more so because Henry Fielding was really very ill. He had terrible, terrible gout, he could hardly walk. And he had asthma and all sorts of things. He was always working against pain. And he hardly ever slept.
The two of them really created the basis of modern police procedure, didn't they?
IG: That's right. Nobody had ever done anything like it before, it was completely uncharted territory, and they kind of made up procedure as they went along.
IM: And they invented the idea that policing might be some sort of social service, rather than just somebody who may or may not do something and was probably corrupt anyway.
Having said how virtuous they were, they weren't averse to using torture. It reveals a darker side to them, doesn't it?
IG: It does, it does. Don't take this the wrong way, but it was a much, much more brutal society they were operating in. If you think that mothers would deliberately blind their own babies so that they could beg and make money, then you get a better idea of what society was like.
Were you aware that the issue of torture had so much contemporary resonance?
IM: Definitely. That was one of the exciting things about the series; there were resonances with contemporary issues throughout the series. Without being hit over the head, even though it's in a period context, you get the feeling that you can relate to what's going on.
Henry died a few years after the Bow Street Runners were founded, but John went on with the work for a long time, didn't he?
IG: Oh yes, for another 30 years. He was much admired, and he was regarded as being a fair judge. He was knighted, in the end.
IM: And he started an employment register as well.
IG: That's right. The two of them had such extraordinary lives. It's the stuff that drama should be about, and it tells the stories that people would otherwise be unaware of. What the Fielding brothers did has to be worth making a drama about.
Go to episode guide »
