Chat Ed : Welcome to this evening's 'Witness: Inside the Mind of the Suicide Bomber' chat with Director Tom Roberts!
Tom Roberts : Hi…
Kaptain : Hi tom do you think that there will ever be a solution to this hatred?
Tom Roberts : I'm absolutely convinced that the solutions are not only possible but have already been conceived A peaceful solution can be found. One of the things that the advocates of peace have to understand is that they’ll have to be tolerant of continuing levels of violence for some period of time. It will take time for this hatred to burn out. But men and women of vision can still promote a peaceful solution that will eliminate the hatred over the long term.
malang : Hi, what motivated you to make this film and what did you aim to achieve ?
Howie : Tom what is your background and what motivated you to do this programme?
Tom Roberts : This is my 9th or 10th on the Middle East. I've been filming in that region since 1991. Before that I was specialised in filming in Eastern Europe and Russia – before the wall came down. I've always been attracted to situations where people lived life to the extreme. It's both depressing and ennobling - although the majority of people are beaten down by adverse conditions, there are always a small amount of people who's humanity shines through and it’s been my privilege to spend my career with these people. I became fascinated by the suicide bombers, in which the bomber speaks of the noblest ideas, God, Peace and Heaven and yet wreaks terrible carnage on ordinary people. I have to admit to be both sickened and fascinated by it.
jonny t : Did the Israeli's have any control over the content of the programme?
pascal-Israel : was the fil censored in any way or did you get any pressure from the Israeli goverment about the making of this documentary
Tom Roberts : The film was not censored in any respect. I did not receive any formal pressure from any member of the Israeli Government. Of course I encountered many anxieties from the Israeli Government. What I have found in the past is that if you negotiate openly and honestly about what your intentions are, and you make it clear that they have no control or influence over the final product but they believe that you will endeavour to be honest in the film, then ultimately you can achieve great access from the Israeli Government. Sadly, I have tried numerous times to gain open, free and unfretted access to Arafat and the men around him but have never been successful. I won't give up trying.
Fisher Stevens : Suicide is a term that is used for people who give up on life, do you think it's suitable for these people?
Tom Roberts: The only difficulty with that question is that this is the current use of the words “suicide bomber” - how they are spoken of in the media, newspapers and private conversation. So, it is a difficult enough subject without attempting to redefine or rename them. There are people who believe they should be called “homicide bombers” or “human time bombs”. Then you have a different versions of suicide bombers, the Japanese called them Kamikaze, which means “divine wind”. The Tamal Tigers have been at it for longer than the Palestinians. Their bombs would kill 200 people in one go. The point here is that it’s not simply an extreme Islamic or fundamental Islamic tactic. It's been used in other cultures and other religions as well. This film is about a unique Palestinian phenomenon, and they are known as suicide bombers.
Asfand Yar : Why was not the myth that suicide is allowed in Islam destroyed in the program? All it takes is two minutes from a recognised Muslim scholar.
Tom Roberts: The film is not about Islam. It’s not about Judaism . These are men who purport to speak in the name of Islam. I don't believe that they speak for Islam, nor do I think that the Islamic scholar has any obligation to appear in film with them to explain or justify these extreme points of view. They act, they kill and they attempt to justify it, and these are the men that do that. It's not about the Christian point of view, it's not about the Islamic point of view. It's not about the Jewish point of view. It's simply about the view of men who claim to speak in the name of Allah.
Mark T : Will your next documentary be on the Israeli soldiers who target Palestinian women and children?
Fisher Stevens : It's nice to see that people are at least attempting to document the situation in the Middle East, what’s your next project?
Tom Roberts : My next project is a film shot North Korea and another film about a black musical cult in Paris and Brussels called the Sapeurs. In answer to the other question, I made three films about the Israeli commandos, snipers and specialist forces, in which innocent Palestinians were killed. I have tried to approach the subject from a variety of angles and perspectives.
Laz : Tom, do you think the British media is at all biased on the Israel Palestine issue?
Tom Roberts : Yeah I think it is. It is a difficult thing to discuss because there are different biases. Generally I feel that the left and right get it wrong because both of them apply their own ideologies to a situation that defies history, logic and rationality.
groovyf : I've noticed no matter what side gets shown of the situation it's called biased which is a shame
Tom Roberts: The Palestinians are indeed oppressed people, but some of their political leaders have contributed to the situation they now find themselves in and hold to a position which demands destruction on another nation to create their own. In order to build their nation they demand destruction of another nation. On the other hand, the occupied territories are a huge millstone around Israel’s neck but it’s a millstone of their own making Ben Gurion warned in the summer of 1967 that the territories, that is the West Bank and Gaza, should be handed back immediately. Instead successive governments in Israel allowed settlements to be built in Gaza and the West Bank, and we now have a long, sorry and sad history as a result. I think Israel needs a Palestinian state in order to survive. I think the Palestinians cannot survive as a state unless they can find a way to live with their Israeli neighbours. Both of them need each other.
Viktor : Hi Tom how representative of Palestinian society is the suicide bomber?
Tom Roberts: Only a tiny fraction. There's probably about 1000 to 2000 individuals who are currently prepared to conduct suicide operations, out of some about 3 million Palestinians living in the occupied territories, so the actual bombers represent a tiny fraction of the population. The organisation that is the primary advocate of suicide bombing is called Hamas. In 1994 when Arafat returned to Gaza and the West Bank, Hamas enjoyed about 10% of the population’s support. It is now estimated, and no one knows for sure, that between 60-70% of the people now support Hamas. The majority of Palestinians support suicide bombers at this time, but I don’t think that support is solid and I think that if Israel were to make fundamental changes with the way they operate in the territories, then that support will drop substantially.
Chat Ed : Our half hour with Tom is almost up, last few questions now...
micky : what's the most important step towards a peace settlement?
Jack W : Hi Tom, Do you have a personal view on how to resolve the conflict?
georgebush : Tom - what do you think needs to happen on both sides in order to achieve a full and lasting peace?
Tom Roberts: I have a very clear view in my mind. The Oslo agreement had fundamental mistakes. It was misguided, it was based on the idea that Israel would grant Palestinians a little bit of local autonomy and they, the Palestinians, would then demonstrate that they were reasonable partners for peace and they would then get more power over their own lives. This idea was not only stupid it was wrong. First of all the Palestinians deserve a state, not because they are nice or not nice people, but because they are a people and they have a right to a nation just like the Israelis do. Secondly, the accords effectively gave all the power to the radicals, not the moderates. At the start, the moderates had very little to show for it, gain very little, had yet to accomplish much. they argued that you must trust their Israeli partners for peace. On the other hand, the extremists didn’t believe that Israel could be trusted, and the situation was such that they could easily attack Israel and simply undermine the moderates’ ability to gain anything at all. So the extremists were handed the real power by Oslo, not the moderates. What was needed and what is needed now is a recognition that Palestine has the right to exist, the settlements are untenable and that the Al-Aska Mosque in Jerusalem is not simply a Palestinian holy place but an Islamic holy place and therefore it needs to be under Islamic sovereignty. But Palestine must give up its claim to the right to return. Unless it does that, the Israeli government will never take them seriously, because it would spell the destruction of Israel immediately. You can't advocate the creation of a Palestinian state via the destruction of an Israeli state - both states must exist for peace to be achieved.
Chat Ed : That's it! Thanks for joining us Tom.
Tom Roberts leaves the room.
