Mark Thomas : Happy May Day!

vicki_jackson : HELLO
Kate Oman : hi mark

Mark Thomas : Hope everyone had a good and peaceful one.

blueviper : hi

V_evolved : Don't you think telling people not to vote is dangerous considering the current political climate in western europe Or is it all blown our of proportion

Mark Thomas : I think if people are concerned about Le Pen and racism in this country then they should look to the mainstream political parties and their contribution towards racism in this country. It was the Labour government that introduced the Immigration and Asylum Act which currently forces asylum seekers to sell items that they possess over a certain value before they are eligible to claim benefit, remembering that people aren't allowed to work either. So effectively the Labour Government is trying to make these people destitute before they can claim benefit. David Blunkett talks of asylum seekers' children swamping British schools and the whole tenure of the debate has been one that has encouraged mis-trust and hatred towards asylum seekers. The actual level of racist attacks has been linked to politicians' comments attacking refugees and asylum seekers - that there is a correlation between those 2 things. If you are concerned about racism why should you support a party that is not only condoning but promoting a deeply racist attitude and deeply racist policies towards asylum seekers.

Taffmonster : do you think u could get a new business deal loan to set up as an arms dealer?

Mark Thomas laughs heartily.
Mark Thomas : You probably could. These people are regarded as legitimate business men and women. You'd find it easier to get backing to be an arms dealer than if you wanted backing for porn movies. Going back to the first question, isn't it deeply racist as well when Britain's attitude is that there are so many points of conflict in the African continent, and group after group call for a reduction in small arms into Africa and yet Labour have ignored their one opportunity to impose greater restrictions. But they won't do it. Because it's not in the arms dealer's interests. So here you have a political party saying they are the only hope against racism but don't give a f*** about the effects of their policies on the people in Africa. They just don't care. I find that deeply racist.

alexi : Perhaps I'm being nnaivebut I don't see the problem with selling arms. What I do see a problem with is the hypocrisy surrounding the denial of it. Of course we do it - every country with industry does it. Should it just be more open?

Mark Thomas : Is there a polite way of saying yes you are being naive? Weapons are often bought by developing countries where democracy isn't even limited to the ridiculous 2 party race that we have and they just go for the 1 party dictator. The arms are financed by loans and underwriting from Western Government and tax payers and when people default on those debts the debt gets transferred to the world bank and it becomes the national debt. The world bank and the IMF then ride in and say here are the structural adjustment loans and you have to privatise this and sell off that and cut education and healthcare so that people in the developing world end up paying for their own repression. It should be more open and transparent. But you will not get that willingly. It's very secretive and dodgy. People will say it's going to go on anyway but that does not absolve you from anything. I've often joked that I'd like to punch an arms dealer but you have to take responsibility for your actions and your role within that. If that's the case we shouldn't have any arms embargoes or sanctions. Just sit back and let the slaughter begin? I should say as well that I spoke to a man who worked for the U.N. on their diamond sanctions... in places like Liberia and Angola the conflicts in those regions are funded by the diamond trade and this guy's job was to impose sanctions on the diamonds being cut and sold to western outlets through de Beers and people like that. He regarded it as a success if he reduced the number of diamonds sold illegally by 50% as he would therefore reduce the amount of arms being purchased by 50%.

Simon_S_Jennings : 'HAS MARK EVER FELT THAT HIS LIFE WAS THREATENED WITH DEALING WITH PEOPLE LIKE ARMS DEALERS?????????'

Mark Thomas : No, I ggenuinelyhaven't. The only time I felt threatened was by British policemen in recent years.

Dontfearthecheese : Your cry to not vote is a valid point, I believe. I must ask, what then SHOULD we do. To say 'don't vote' is a promotion of inaction. If we are to improve matters we must act. How do you think the public should act if not in the realms of conventional government? The protesters in London today seem united only by vague slogans

Mark Thomas : Very good question. Voting is something that leads to inaction. If our idea of democracy is to turn up once in a while and put a cross on a bit of paper then we're truly f****d. I think that by not voting you show parties that it's not apathy, but anger and distaste. Why be forced to something you don't believe in? I think that it is the day-to-day battles which are crucial. Whether it is joining an e-mail protest. I saw one today about an American firm and Premier Oil. The fact is that if you take that one campaign it's been their campaigning that have forced Texaco to disinvest from Burma. Obviously as well the Ilisu Dam campaign, but that campaign took on and beat 3 multi-nationals, one Swiss bank, one torturing state, seven export credit agencies, and really there is a lot that we can achieve by ccampaigningand activism. The protests today were united by real discontent and by an anger and frustration that their views have been marginalised in the interests of business. They want real democracy. If parliamentary democracy is all we've got, f*** it, we want more. They have to be made accountable to us. More control in your workplace. More control in your community.

Gav : Do you think much more harmful weapons such as nuclear missiles can be found and bought by anyone , if as you showed machine guns can be bought quite easily in 8 days?

Mark Thomas : I'm not an expert, but, there have been nuclear materials emerging from the former Soviet Union. Interestingly though in a report that was published way before Sept 11th, people said that the real threat of terrorist activity was not going to come from nuclear attacks or missiles which was the excuse for Star Wars, it was likely to come from what they described as a 'bomb in a box' which can't be traced to a state. So, there are possibilities that people may be able to get hold of nuclear material but I think it would be much harder for me, it would take maybe 10 or 11 days ; )

showmethemoney : How is it possible for you to live in a democratic society like Britain and constantly poke fun and ridicule the democratic system, ie. voting, when people in Zimbabwe and other developing nations queue for upup to0 hours to vote and in some countries face huge jail sentences and even death for trying to be involved in the political system of the aforementioned country?

Mark Thomas : Excellent question. If we take the example of the U.S, it is one of the most advanced democracies in the world. Its Bill of Rights far outstrips anything else. Its constitution enshrines freedom of speech and is the only one to enshrine the right to happiness. On matters of freedom of information it outstrips other countries too. It is fair to say that the U.S citizens have the most liberty across the world. However, America's foreign policy is the most anti-democratic in the world. It overthrew a democratically elected government. in Chile. It has waged war against populist movements throughout Nicaragua, Guatemale and Honduras. It wages war against trade unionists, human rights activists, and peasants. Across the world America is responsible for financing the most un-democratic dictators. Britain, likewise, has played a role in supporting the U.S's anti-democratic activities in more than just diplomatic and vocal encouragement. It has been the British politicians and ruling classes that have been responsible for encouraging anti-democratic acactivitiesIf you look at the example of oil companies in Nigeria or Colombia which received the backing from the U.S and Britain and who have the most apappallinguman rights atrocities committed and profoundly unundemocraticegimes used to repress any opposition to the destruction of the habitat jobs and lives of those communities. As far as I can see the undemocratic activities are coming from the very people who claim to be democrats. Why on earth would I support them? It was the British Government, under the Tories who supported South Africa. They are so profoundly democratic.

Mark Thomas : I thought that was a good answer. I might put my feet up for the next one.

Chat Ed : OK everyone - our 30 minutes with MARK is up now, so last three questions thanks....

John Crozier : I became a gun control advocate after my daughter got shot dead in her school and campaigned to get handguns banned. The pro gun advocates were well financed by the manufacturers and dealers. They are planning a protest against the handgun ban at the opening ceremony of the Commonwealth Games. What do you think?

Mark Thomas : Good lord. I think anyone who believes that we should have a relaxation of laws for hand guns, after Dunblane, is insane. It's a simple fact that guns take lives. And people who want to play with toys that take lives cannot be psychologically there. I'd be very interested in finding out more about the protest though John. If you want to e-mail me John, please do so mark@vera.co.uk I'd be happy to discuss anything.

jamessadler : Mark re-arms why did you bottle it??? why didnt u export the arms, then u could have pursued criminal convictions [if the sanctions had been broken], AND MAYBE MADE A CHANGE. What you do is great and ive followed your work for years, BUT get these people in court mate and get some precedents set.

Mark Thomas : Firstly, if I'm honest the way the show was organised from the production end has been the worst it's ever been. This has an impact on the stories. We did this in eight days. Originally, last week, I didn't think we were going to do this show on arms. I thought we were doing the world bank. But one e-mail came through that changed all that. The team brilliantly responded to that and went for it. But time is an enormous factor here. Secondly, to actually export the arms we would have needed a final destination (Govt.) in Algeria or Zimbabwe. So we'd be exporting to the very people we don't want to get the guns to and we did have long and hard debates about this. It would be totally immoral. I agree with the sentiments though, they should be banged up and investigated. We are sending our evidence to the authorities in Finland. But I totally take your point. In all honesty the show was nowhere near as good as it could have been.

qqzm : Please give us an effective message to protest with. How is it best to campaign the government to stop the arms Trade generally?

Mark Thomas : There are a number of groups, Campaigning Against the Arms Trade is one, BAE Systems have got their AGM meeting on Friday at the Queen Elizabeth Conference Centre in London and there are actions and protests that day, but there isn't one single message that will bring about effective change other than to say these companies need to be ruthlessly pursued and campaigned against. It's not even that the companies may sell to dodgy regimes but that our tax money will be financing it. People really have to choose ways of campaigning that they feel comfortable with.

Chat Ed : That's it! Thanks for coming MARK, that was fantastic. And thanks for all your questions, folks! Hope you all enjoyed it! There will be a transcript of this chat up on www.channel4.com/talk very soon.

Chat Ed : You can read the transcript of Mark's previous chat in the chats section of http://www.channel4.com/markthomas

benm : great show
cjd2002 : I thought it was a great show tonight
Sedge : Keep it up Mark

Mark Thomas : Hopefully I'll be at Glastonbury this year and remember the AMEC AGM is on the 8th.

rob greig : Mark i love u.
bob downs : fight hard mark
matthew : bye dude love the show
LokiCreatesHavoc : Take it easy, Mark.
Bart : cheers mate
Rae : see you at glastonbury

Mark Thomas : My mate Mitch who was a founder member of the nightingale chapter of the Hell's Angels has reformed his band the Wild Angels to do a benefit gig for the Kurdish Human Rights Project on the 8th at the 100 Club in London. I'm supposed to be singing 'I fought the law and the law won' with him. Much love to everyone. And thanks.

Chat Ed : Details of the shows can be found at channel4.com/markthomas

jason : THANKS
Emma : see ya Mark
Monkman : Peace
Candra : thanks mark xx
cocopops : bye

Mark Thomas leaves the room

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