Chat Ed : Good evening everyone and thanks for coming to our webchat with Dispatches Producer/Director, Sarah MacDonald. Tonight’s Dispatches goes Undercover in the Secret State. North Korea is one of the world's most secretive states. It has been controlled in the last 60 years by The Great Leader Kim Il-sung and later his son Kim Jong-il through a tyrannical form of Stalinism. During their regime an estimated 200,000 men, women and children have been imprisoned in political concentration camps. A famine in the 1990's decimated a further two million. Sarah MacDonald joins us now to answer your questions…
Sarah MacDonald : Welcome everyone, glad that you watched the film and felt motivated to want to discuss it.
shadowbaldeprime : great show sarah: really though provoking
Editorial : Superb programme but what is most distressing is that no solution seems to be proposed against this regime??
apple26 : How long do you think the current north Korean regime will go on?
Christine : Hi There, really enjoyed the program, what an eye opener
Sarah MacDonald : Sadly human rights become secondary to politics and, as Kim Jong-il uses the threat of nuclear weapons to blackmail the West, his people will continue to suffer.
Slayer : Do you think North Korea will self-destruct given enough time, or do you think the leaders sons will take over after his death?
Sarah MacDonald : apple - people have been predicting its downfall for a very long time and just today Kim Jong-il announced that his regime is stronger than ever It's very difficult to predict what will happen in North Korea but the dissidents that we have exposed in the film are a very small numbers of people. The majority of North Koreans have been brainwashed from birth into believing they live in paradise so it's going to be a very long and slow process to awaken their minds to reality.
Harry : What can we do to help the north Koreans?
Grysham : In your opinion, what’s the best way to help the situation in North Korea?
Seansas : What can we do to help??
dion_21uk : What can i do as an average person willing to get active for the help needed in North Korea?
Sarah MacDonald : I think, personally, that it's important to support the underground networks that help the refugees that are fleeing, who are operating on a shoestring at great personal risk from the Chinese and continue to put pressure on politicians to separate politics from human rights.
metrosensual : What images do they have of Western countries?
Sarah MacDonald : Ironically those who have access to the smuggled videos, and it sounds like quite a number of people do have access to them, they are the few soap operas from South Korea, Hong Kong and America, so you can imagine what a distorted image they must have of what the West is like. But the primary importance of these videos is to expose the North Koreans to the level of prosperity on the outside because they are taught that the rest of the world is starving.
MoonMonkey : I thought that the paradox between the UN and the American embassy about the granting of refugee status is a disgrace
lonesomekimjong : Why is the UNHCR so uncooperative in this situation?
oceanclub : Hi there.. I wondering... were you particularly shocked that the UNHCR simply passed the buck? Or is that par for the course?
Sarah MacDonald : We have no idea. We had personal meetings with the UNHCR on behalf of Mr Park and were assured by the UNHCR that they would expedite his case but sadly we discovered, after a few months, that nothing had been done to either protect him or to give him refugee status.
vikki : why won’t any countries take in the people who escape?
Jeni : Why doesn't China help the people escape? What can we do to help?
Sarah MacDonald : Pressure needs to be put on China, especially as the Olympics are coming up there in 2008, since their stance has been to crack down on North Korean refugees because they fear a flood. South Korea takes them automatically.
livingdaylight : i don't understand if it is so bad over there why people who cross return??!
Sarah MacDonald : Well, because their families are there and it's the life they have known and it's most refugees desire to live in a country that's theirs. Usually only one person will escape but they're leaving these huge families behind.
Jack White : How do the current circumstances relate to Stalinist Russia is terms of violence? How widespread is the violence?
Sarah MacDonald : Human rights watch estimates that 200,000 political prisoners languish inside prisons and from the testimony of refugees we spoke to the brutality is probably on a par with the most extreme regimes in the world.
Spencer : American troops are stationed in South Korea. Does their presence exacerbate the problem or place a check on NK's forces from going south? Should US troops leave?
Sarah MacDonald : I can only say this from what I've read, in terms of the wider political issues, and if you read Dan Oberdorfer's book The Two Koreas, which charts various American regimes and diplomatic manoeuvring with North Korea. It appears that sometimes American troops in South Korea may actually act as a deterrent to poor behaviour by North Korea.
Megan : If south Korea takes them automatically, why do a wave of people not emigrate to South Korea?
Sarah MacDonald : Because they can't get out. And because they have been taught that South Korea will poison them and abuse them and that they are all starving there.
Douglas : Towards the end of the documentary it was interesting to hear a prayer in the taxi. What do you know of the Christian movement in North Korea and how is it regarded politically?
Sarah MacDonald : I met Tim Peters from Helping Hands Korea - the underground Christian network - and believe he is helping the North Korean refugees to a huge extent given limited resources. I know that he has been in reasonably high-level discussions with the State Department in the U.S. and can only presume, from the fact that high-level political figures invite him to talk to them, that they must be fairly well respected.
Dag : How long did it take to complete the documentary?
Sean : Have you felt threatened even back in the UK?
Sarah MacDonald : It took five months and no, we haven't been threatened. The greatest threat is always to the refugees themselves.
nach0king : how difficult is it to actually trace and interview the north Korean defectors found in the documentary?
Sarah MacDonald : It's difficult, but there are some very brave people who are willing to find them for us.
nach0king : how difficult is it to protect the identity of a subject whilst still getting relevant info for broadcast?
Sarah MacDonald : Hopefully, as you can see from the film, we filmed it without pointing the camera at people's faces and that makes them relax into talking to us.
Megan : So is the immediate goal of this program, and of North Korean refugees, to alert the rest of the world, or to alert their own people? Does the change need to start with North Korea's people, or will the outside world force a political influence which has a hope of trickling down and getting the message to those who are isolated?
Anton : What is the rest of the world doing just watching, UK and US
Sarah MacDonald : Good question Megan. It's a combination of both. And the dissidents inside North Korea understand that they need both internal awareness of light outside and they want the world outside North Korea to understand the realities so that pressure can be brought to bear. It's probably necessary to have both working in conjunction.
Arkwright : Does the N Korean secret service track and retrieve defectors only or do they commit executions also?
Sarah MacDonald : Yes there are many examples of North Korean agents tracking defectors and kidnapping them to be returned to North Korea where punishment will be severe, often death, if not by execution, by interrogation and imprisonment.
mullysnet : The documentary said that there was propaganda pumped via sound systems into the villages - what did they say?
Sarah MacDonald : It was loosely translated as “Kim Jong-il is great”, in so many words.
tr1b3s : Is it true that North Korean refugees are being assassinated in the South?
Sarah MacDonald : I don't know if they are being assassinated in the South but they are certainly being kidnapped and returned.
jolly : what do you hope the impact of this programme will be??
Sarah MacDonald : That the world will put pressure on China to treat these people better when they flee because at the moment it's out of the frying pan and into the fire.
leemartin : Any idea where we can get more information on this subject?
Sarah MacDonald : There are many excellent websites that are run out of South Korea by the underground networks and they are always looking for donations. www.freenorthkorea.net and www.helpinghandskorea.org
Jamie_H : Thank you Sarah for a very informative piece of programming!
Dash : Sarah will you be doing any more inspiring documentaries?
Sarah MacDonald : What can I say to that?! I'm waiting for my next commission :)
DaveHarries : Thanks for bringing home the horrors of North Korea. A real eye-opener!
nach0king : what struck you most about the secretly filmed scenes of everyday life in north Korea?
Sarah MacDonald : How true the mundane nature of the pictures were. It revealed the poverty of their lives and its grimness. While there were shocking scenes like the executions and the woman lying dead on the street it was almost as shocking seeing the train conductor beating up one of the passengers for not having the right travel permit and people sleeping outside the station.
Escape : Great program, thanks Sarah and C4
dion_21uk : Thank you for opening my eyes to this terrible hidden tragedy Sarah
Alexf1 : Thank you Sarah, you opened my eyes to this. Definitely something to follow...
Rosie Scott : Thanks
Emmanuela : thanks very much for that film, i think that it's great that you can tell others about what is happening over there
Stephen Gillard : Thank you
Shelley : Thank you!
Sarah MacDonald : Thank you very much for taking the extra effort to come on this webchat, it's really great to get feedback when you've spent a long time working with a great team on a programme you feel is vitally important.
Nick in Salford : Thanks - films like this are highly appreciated.
LL : Thanks!
Tfly : thx sarah :D
Sarah MacDonald : It's easy for it to disappear into the ether and the core message to go with it. It's nice to know that it has had an impact. Let's hope it helps the refugees.
chris : it sure has!
Karl : Thanks
Sarah MacDonald leaves the room
