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Beneath the Veil

Jun 26 2001

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Beneath the Veil - Saira Shah and Cassian Harrison

Documentary makers, Saira Shah and Cassian Harrison, talked about their time in Afghanistan

Saira Shah : Hello everyone!
Cassian Harrison : Hellooo

ES : Saira, what did you think that documentary would help to do for the people of Afganistan?

Saira Shah : It's incredibly difficult when you look at a problem as complex as Afghanistan, to try to find solutions, but if in our film we could make people care a little bit on a completely human and personal level, from one human being to another, perhaps that's all we can hope for.
Cassian Harrison : The UN, basically through the World Food Programme, is shipping in thousands of tons of food every day to keep the people of Afghanistan alive. But when they have gone to governments to ask for the money to keep those supplies going, their budgets have been continually slashed. The important thing is for the tragedy of Afghanistan to be kept in people's minds, and for us to keep helping those people.

Duncan Kerr : Has the Taliban regime signed up to any human rights treaties, and if so how can the international communitee enforce them. It seems that there has been some success in prosecuting war criminals in the Bosnia conflict.

Cassian Harrison : The Taliban regime has signed up to nothing; at present their main goal is to simply to try and get recognition that they are a government.

amjad : Why have you suddenly realized that the Taliban are a brutal regime, doesnt the western world also have some responsibility in creating this situation.

Saira Shah : I first started going to to Afghanistan in the 80s and I saw the beginning of the collapse of Afghanistan's culture and society. Largely because both superpowers saw it as a pawn.

neil g : There is an uncanny similarity with this documentary and the killing fields in Cambodia, intervention by a neighbouring country solved that disaster, who will intervene this time?

Saira Shah : Tricky question! Today the world finds it quite convenient to forget that it has a responsibility. In a way, part of the problem is that there has been unbalanced intervention because Pakistan is widely believed to support the Taliban. Given Afghanistan's history, where no foreign power has ever managed to come out of Afghanistan unscathed, I don't think that military intervention by foreign powers is appropriate. However an awareness of Afghanistan within the world community is a start to exerting political and humanitarian pressure.
Cassian Harrison : Let's give it a go.

Ehud_Sheron : Why were the Afgans called freedom fighters during the cold war yet are now seen as FUNDAMENTALISTS?

Saira Shah : They both are devout Muslims.
Cassian Harrison : but there is a difference between the two. The 'freedom fighters' of the Soviet Opposition were principally concerned with expelling the Russians from Afghanistan. The tragedy is that once they had succeeded in doing so, they seemed to be unable to do anything but fight amongst themselves. The Taliban arose from that situation, and their distinction is that they are using laws that they claim to be based on Islamic religious texts in order to control and to run the country. This is where they can be called 'fundamentalists' although it is always a difficult term to use because they are attempting to use very basic texts as an entire system for human behaviour.
Saira Shah : I would not call the Taliban fundamentalists. I would call them extremists. I know many devout Muslims who have tolerance for other faiths and ways of life, who consider tolerance to be one of the fundamentals of Islam.

richard01 : Does Afghanistan still receive international aid under the Taliban regime??

Cassian Harrison : In a massive quantity. It is the only thing that is keeping millions of people alive.

Farooq : I saw that Ahmed Rashid was a consultant on the programme, is he the same writer who wrote, 'Islam, Oil & the New Great Game in Central Asia'?

Cassian Harrison : Yes he is.

AK : As the web-site mentions, much of the poverty can be traced back to pre-Taliban times, as a result of long conflict.....since exacerbated by sanctions and lack of foreign aid....why was the poverty etc very much attributed to the Taliban themselves??

Saira Shah : That's a bit of a chicken and egg question. The Taliban social policies have created poverty on two levels. One is in the social fabric for example, by prohibiting women from working. They forced a whole section of the community to beg. But in addition they have neglected rebuilding infrastructure, and their political isolation has also led to stagnation of investment from the outside world.
Cassian Harrison : From conversations with the major aid organisations working within Afghanistan, it seems to be the case that the Taliban are expending considerably more energy on obstructing the actions of those aid agencies than they are in attempting to assist the population of the country themselves.

Lynn : Saira do you not worry that this may have marked you out by this taleban regime and judging by some of the comments in this chat room they are NOT being universally panned. Could this put you at personal risk even in the uk?

Saira Shah : That's something I have thought about! Particularly as I live in a very ethnically diverse area of London.
Cassian Harrison : I would hope that the very spirit of tolerance that Saira has just described as being one of the hearts of Islam, one of the core principals of Islam, is something which holds true in this country as much as it does around the World.

Salman : cassian, why is it that the iranians and the tajiks have been warning everyone about the taliban for 3 years, but the west only pays attention now???

Cassian : Ehm.... I haven't actually noticed the West paying very much attention at all! The difficulty is that the conflict in Afghanistan has lasted so long that people seem to treat it as part of the landscape.

alisonh : Surely even the Taliban must realise that the impoverishment of women and by extension the children, they will not be able to renew themselves as they grow older. Women will not be able to have babies and the children will be sickly. Is this a society with a death wish?

Saira : I think that many of the Taliban grew up in an environment such as Islamic seminaries where they were deprived of contact with women and social structures and consequently I think they often fear women and family life. This is very dangerous for ordinary people.

Layley Golaby : What happend to the three girls?
Robert Hansler : Is it possible to get some aid to the three kids featured?

Cassian : What happened we do not know.
Saira : I wish.
Cassian : From the news we have heard, the Taliban have not retaken the village where they live.

Scotty : Do you think the education RAWA provides (with potential infiltration through future generations ) is the key to the fall of the Taliban?

Saira : Realistically, education is pivotal but I'm afraid that secret schools either by RAWA or by other similar groups, cannot educate enough of the children of Afghanistan.

Bambos : But where did the money come from? Someone is suppying funds to these people

Saira : Bambos, it's generally believed to be Pakistan.

Michael Davidson : Michael: Saira you and your colleagues are exceptionally brave. How can I offer support to RAWA financially or otherwise eg letters to Mr. Blair etc?
annie2 : how do we support RAWA without putting them in more danger?
42663 : what would be the best way of helping them?

Saira : You should email them. Their address is rawa@rawa.org Mail to show support!

Colin Moir : If there is room for foreign intervention, where do you think international efforts should be prioritised within Afghanistan?

Chat Ed : That's it! Thanks for coming Saira and Cassian, that was fantastic. And thanks for all your questions, folks! Hope you all enjoyed it!

Cassian : Thanks for coming.
Saira : Thank you! We're really impressed at the turnout. Thank you for watching the show and taking part tonight.
Cassian : Cheers!

waseema : thanks for a brilliant programme

Cassian leaves the room
Saira leaves the room

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