Chat Ed : Welcome to tonight's live THE ANATOMISTS chat with Professor GUNTHER VON HAGENS! The Body Worlds exhibition runs until the 29 September 2002 and is open daily 9am-9pm at the Atlantis Gallery, The Old Truman Brewery, 146 Brick Lane, London E1 6QL. For more information go to the Anatomists website - channel4.com/science.
Dave Gower : Hi Professor Von Hagens
kalee : Hello professor
SR : HEllo Proffesor
Musey : hey
Professor Von Hagens : Hello everyone, I'm happy to be with you on the last day that I'm here in London before I go back to China.
Dave Gower : Professor Von Hagens, can you tell me what laws there are regarding plastination and what steps you must go through before you are allowed to plastinate human bodies.
Professor Von Hagens : Plastination is a new process, therefore it is not governed by German Law. In Germany, as in every democracy, everything is allowed that is not forbidden by law. Therefore I do not need any permission to plastinate human bodies or parts thereof providing that what I do is done in good, ethical conduct.
kw : Did you gain consent from the parents of the plastinated babies?
Professor Von Hagens : The plastinated foetuses originate from old anatomical collections which have been shown in formaldehyde to the public before. It is in accordance with 400 years of anatomical history in Europe that these specimens are shown to the public. I have no consent of the parents of them from the old collections and if I was to show foetuses of the present time then I would only do so by getting parental consent.
John : Do you not think it is at all wrong to take bodies and put them on display to the public with their identities destroyed? Will you keep your identity when you are plastinated?
Professor Von Hagens : My identity will be anonymous. If I kept the identity this would not be an anatomical exhibition anymore but rather a post-mortal exhibition.
sooxanne : Your work is very simular to L'Autre Fragonard, especially the piece with the man on the horse. Have you seen this piece , if so was Fragonard an influence on you?
Professor Von Hagens : Indeed I have seen it before and was impressed. However, the plastinated horse's rider shows more anatomy because both corpses have been opened to reveal the inner organs of man and horse. In this way it is a real work of comparative anatomy.
Tom Rosenthal : I am a 14 year-old and was at the exhibit today. As I am studying digestion, I found it very useful. But I was also present when that mad man took a hammer to one of your figures. It outraged me, but how does it make you feel?
Professor Von Hagens : Well, I am deeply saddened by this act of sheer vandalism. No incident like this has ever happened before and 8 million people have visited Body Worlds exhibition. I am especially upset that it has happened here in the UK, a country I believe to be the first place of liberalism. I think this act is akin to desecration of cemeteries or graves. Those who chose to leave their bodies in this exhibition have a permanent place of enlightenment. This should be respected as much as those who choose the more traditional resting place of burial or cremation.
C Buckley : why was the pregnant woman in your exhibition placed in such a provocative pose?, i found this deeply disturbing , the males were not posed in this way
ce : the pregnant woman who is presented reclining in an ingres-like posture, with stomach open to reveal a five month old foetus, seriously challenges the boundaries of taste - why did you choose to present her this way?
Professor Von Hagens : I am sorry but you did not look properly. It is by no means a provocative pose. The hand of the woman is touching her head indicating headaches, rather than touching the neck. The abdomen is raised to indicate the tension which people feel when looking at this double tragedy. The raised arm gives the woman elegance. I did try her in more than 20 poses, which I showed to many people. I have scrutinised nearly all women of art history in order not to duplicate art poses. When you put the question to yourself, "What pose would be better?" you will understand how difficult it is. I believe I chose the most respectful one that I could think of.
Death : do you have any moral issues in dealing with the chinese authorities, taking into account their total disregard for human rights of any kind?
Professor Von Hagens : I learnt from my East German past and my time in China that it is important not to judge from a distance and that we should always take into account the Chinese mentality and the historic self understanding. I don't think that eurocentric behaviour of knowing better is the solution. I know very well about the different moral understandings of our two cultures but especially with my biography, as a political prisoner in East Germany, I believe that a change for the better can only be achieved by being in the country and talking and communicating personally. Therefore I work in China and invite the Chinese to work and learn in Germany. I can in no way share your overall criticism of China that is obvious from your question.
Jeffry : I would really like to be plastinated and be sort of frozen in time, but how can i go about signing up?
Professor Von Hagens : At the exhibition you can buy, for 2 pounds, a brochure which includes a donation form. After filling that out you will receive a donation card.
Zoran : Do you think your work will help to deconstruct the hold of religion and our attitudes to death
Professor Von Hagens : I'm sure that this exhibition will in no way harm religious feelings but in fact many religious people are body donors. As independent surveys show, religious people think as positively about Body Worlds as others. Many regard the beauty and the complexity of what they see in the exhibition as evidence of God.
Chat Ed : Our half hour with GUNTHER is almost up now, so last three questions now...
Hazel : Are you afraid of death?
Professor Von Hagens : I am not afraid of death because to be called an anatomist I have the privilege to experience everyday that death is normal, but life is very precious. Sometimes I even wonder that I'm still alive despite me already enjoying and experiencing life so much.
derekandclive : Are you a very religious man? and if so,did you have any personal conflicts when you first discovered the process?
Professor Von Hagens : As an inventor doubt and non-belief is my power. I was wrong so often in life that I would rather leave a few questions open than be wrong again. I have the privilege in our society not to be forced to have to have an answer to all questions. I think in likelihood that I'm rather an agnostic than a believer. I feel that my brain is not constructed to decide about the existence of God.
Big E : Professor, do you see your work as more of an art than as an educational tool, or the other way around?
Professor Von Hagens : I see my work as education and enlightenment. I use, to accomplish this aim, the aesthetics and fine work. If, as many believe, this exhibition preaches science as art, I am for sure on the side of science. I see myself not as an artist but rather as an inventor and for this I need the creativity of an artist and even more, the scientific thinking.
Chat Ed : That's it! Thanks for coming and talking to us GUNTHER!
derekandclive : thanks for coming to C4chat Professor :) I hope the exhibition goes well
Professor Von Hagens : Thank you for coming. I hope that you will have discussions with your friends and you will help to democratise anatomy.
catherine : bye bye
WYSIWYG : nighty night Mr Hagen
Krome : thanks
Sammy : Thanks mate!
janey : best wishes for the future
F1Fever : Thankyou
Phil518 : Many thanks
Martin : bye!
James : bieeeeeeeeeeeeeee
cat : ciao, cya soon
Dillinger : see u in 20 years in the gallery
Brendan : bye now
Professor Von Hagens leaves the room
Chat Ed : The Body Worlds exhibition runs until the 29th September 2002 and is open daily 9am-9pm at the Atlantis Gallery, The Old Truman Brewery, 146 Brick Lane, London E1 6QL. For more information go to the Anatomists website - channel4.com/science.
